Times Online;

Talk about misinformation.

Outdated Map Data

Outdated Map Data

The Map is currently showing an earlier version of the Second Life grid. This is only affecting the Map - all inworld locations remain unchanged. We are aware of the issue, and the Map data is in the process of updating, which we anticipate being completed overnight.

Inworld Services Disrupted

Inworld Services Disrupted

[ALL CLEAR 11:43 PM Pacific] Logins are open and the asset system is stabilized. Please be patient logging in for the next few minutes. If possible, wait for the first login to complete instead of canceling and retrying, so that you maintain your position in the login queue.

[UPDATE 10:58 PM Pacific] Logins are now Linden-only while Operations repairs the asset system. Please do not attempt valuable transactions until the ALL CLEAR is given.

[UPDATE 10:30 PM Pacific] Operations is continuing to assess the slowdown. They’re sufficiently engaged in the effort that getting more details from them at the moment would be a counterproductive distraction. We’ll ask them for more information when possible, and a follow up post when the slowdown is cleared.

There’s an issue with the asset servers which is interfering with a number of inworld services. It is being investigated, but until the issue is resolved, please refrain from making transactions or rezzing no-copy items.

Grid Status

[UPDATE 10:58 PM Pacific] Logins are now Linden-only while Operations repairs the asset system. Please do not attempt valuable transactions until the ALL CLEAR is given.

[UPDATE 10:30 PM Pacific] Operations is continuing to assess the slowdown. They’re sufficiently engaged in the effort that getting more details from them at the moment would be a counterproductive distraction. We’ll ask them for more information when possible, and a follow up post when the slowdown is cleared.

There’s an issue with the asset servers which is interfering with a number of inworld services. It is being investigated, but until the issue is resolved, please refrain from making transactions or rezzing no-copy items

Bay City - Up And Running!

Bay City - Up And Running!
Thursday, May 8th, 2008 at 9:39 AM by: Michael Linden

Now open for Resident inspection — Bay City! Regions intended for a vibrant urban experience, double primmed for your pleasure. Roads, parks, a movie theater and city services are already in place, maintained by Linden Lab. Close to the offices and shops of Nova Albion, with broad canals usable for travel and tourism — but with broad, clean beaches and plentiful vegetation.

Rail and water trolleys carry the Residents of Bay City about; a balloon tour provides dazzling aerial views of the city. Connections to the world at large by ship, seaplane, dirigible, road and rail are available.

In just over a week, auctions will begin for the many attractive parcels in Bay City’s first twelve Regions. Ranging in size from about 512 square meters to nearly 2000 square meters, the parcels cannot be terraformed, joined or divided by their owners. Buyers will receive a package of textures and objects to help with their building projects.

Governor Linden said in a pre-recorded statement, “We hope that the Residents of this new city will produce interesting and attractive structures, in styles appropriate to the period 1930 to 1960 when most of our buildings were erected. In any case, the Residents of Bay City will form a unique and bustling community.”

Bay City — easily reached by Route 66 from Nova Albion, or by sea via the Straits of Shermerville.

“Bay City — the City by the Bay.” Directions Today: Bay City is so new it doesn’t show on the map yet, but it is there, and it’s worth a visit! To get there, open your Map in-world, search for Cape Haven, and teleport there. Bay City will be SOUTH of you.

You can open the Mini-Map to see which direction you need to go, just fly up above the water (in Cape Haven you land on the ocean floor) and then fly due South to visit the new Bay City — the City by the Bay.” [Edited to add directions for today, -- Katt Linden]

This entry was posted on Thursday, May 8th, 2008 at 9:39 AM and is filed under Announcements & News, Community, Resident Experience. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
150 Responses to “Bay City - Up And Running!”

1. 1 Meade Paravane Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 9:55 AM

‘Grats, Michael & all the Moles!!

Any chance you can poke the sim map to update - slurl just shows ocean. :(
2. 2 Torley Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:01 AM

*makes note to come ’round, be touristy, and take some pictures* :)
3. 3 Zeb Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:07 AM

I thought Lindens were out of the content-creation business.

Whatever happened to this grand “resident generated” world?
4. 4 Richard Meiklejohn Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:07 AM

Sounds great. Would love to see it. Unfortunately TPing to any of the Bay City sims or North Channel seems borked.
5. 5 Digital Digital Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:08 AM

Can’t seem to TP there :/
6. 6 Michael Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:15 AM

Sorry, the regions are so very, very new that the map doesn’t yet match the current locations. Try teleporting to the “Cape Haven” region this morning, it’s immediately adjacent to Bay City.
7. 7 Gwendolyn Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:16 AM

Oh that sounds really cool. *tries to scrape some L$ or USD together to buy a parcel*
8. 8 Pompo Bombacci Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:20 AM

Ditto..cannot tp to location either…
9. 9 Digital Digital Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:24 AM

Got there wow this is amazing Great work!
10. 10 Richard Meiklejohn Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:35 AM

That’s a great build! The beach area MooseBeach compliments it beautifully and the canals are fantastic! Great stuff
11. 11 Rachel Darling Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Sadly, it seems that after residents have spent the last few years experimenting, funding, and suffering through the growing pains of the project, Linden Lab has now made the decision to switch their focus from “partner” to “competitor.”

I’ve always wondered why LL hasn’t made more of an effort to showcase the exceptional builds, projects and achievements of its residents. I am now beginning to get a glimpse into the future of Second Life.

The plan: First put out the undesirables by banning self-proclaimed “immoral” activities like gambling and other adult entertainment. Next put the economic competitors out of business by lowering the price of sims and supporting Ansche Chung’s 10L efforts. Last, put the social networking and community-builders out of business by starting their own virtual communities and promoting them instead. What’s next?

Of course, if you’re one of the select few who LL HAVE chosen to focus on by allowing you to create one of the integrated “Welcome Centers,” or if you’ve been lucky enough to get featured on the designer pages, then that’s your good fortune. But it seems the rest of us will have to struggle to find other means of overcoming the extreme advantages that LL have for promoting themselves and the Chosen Ones.

It does seem as if LL is trying to tell us that the relationship was fun, but it’s time for them to move on and spread their wings.
12. 12 Mazok Nishi Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:41 AM

mhh /me having a strange feeling about it … @ Lindens Why you getting involved with Content Creation ? The Whole “here is the ToolBox do somthing Great” Sandbox thing is what SL was about or did i miss something ?
13. 13 jacek Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Looks great, and a lot bigger than I expected! I’m glad to see some roads and waterways running through it; much more attractive than block after block of shoebox houses lined up in a grid.

I’m looking forward to seeing how it shapes up once people start moving in and building up their own homes and shops!
14. 14 Rockwell Ginsberg Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:44 AM

First 12 sims? How many are planned?

Any guesses as to what price these parcels will fetch at auction? Shall we set the over/under at 100L/sqm?
15. 15 Pompo Bombacci Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:46 AM

cool I’m sitting in da trolley for da tour! :)
16. 16 Lyn Mimistrobell Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:49 AM

I can’t TP to any of the Bay City sims… From Cape Haven it’s a long way to there and it’s not all covered by sims so flying or sailing is out…

Any other brilliant ideas?
17. 17 Ciaran Laval Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:50 AM

All you need for this launch is a live performance from the bay city rollers ….ok maybe not!
18. 18 Pompo Bombacci Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:51 AM

Once in Cape Haven increase your drawing distance or you won’t see it, it’s not too far from there and it doesn’t show in the map, you can fly to it in no time
19. 19 Lyn Mimistrobell Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:52 AM

By the way, where did my Blog avatar come from and how can I change it? :)
20. 20 Broccoli Curry® Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:56 AM

i love it!
21. 21 Byakuya Runo Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:01 AM

When can we start bidding on the lots?
22. 22 Ciaran Laval Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Go to Cape Haven and head south, check the mini map, you’ll end up in Bay City.
23. 23 Ari Blackthorne™ (Patent Pending) Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:06 AM

*S* *A* *T-U-R* *D-A-Y* *NIGHT!*
*S* *A* *T-U-R* *D-A-Y* *NIGHT!*

LOL @ Ciaran - Gawd I date myself… Bay City Rollers rocked, man! ;)
24. 24 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:14 AM

@ 3 & others.

“Why are Linden Lab getting Involved with Content Creation?”
Answer is, they will always need to be Involved a little bit with Projects Like this, but the Builders of Bay City, and who work on the LDPW Projects is a Group of Resident Builders. They are given a Mole account, but are not Lindens. However Lindens do need to be Involved, to do the stuff that Residents can’t do and generally oversee the builds.

This project is very much Resident based and created.
And if a Resident was to do it all, they’d have to become a Linden to have Linden Powers, and then they’d be a Linden.

Great Job on this!
25. 25 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:15 AM

@ 19. I think it is your WordpPress Blog Picture. If you have a WordPress account, and use that to comment here then your WordPress Picture will show, if you don;t then a pattern is generated. I think this is new on this Blog. I could be wrong :)
26. 26 Angelas Enoch Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:18 AM

Funny thing..I actually was raised in a RL Bay City… Looking forward to what it has to offer..
27. 27 Nissa Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:19 AM

Loved it, from what I saw, looks great, I too will be trying to scrape a few $L together to buy a little plot, looks to be very interesting. Easy to get to also if you read the instructions given.
28. 28 Richard Meiklejohn Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:19 AM

Anyone know if there are any rezzing platforms somewhere near to rezz a vehicle?
29. 29 Doreen Garrigus Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:20 AM

I’m just posting to see what my blog post picture pattern is. :)
30. 30 Nissa Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:24 AM

#28 - was wondering the same thing, I saw a guy driving so there may be unless he rezzed it elsewhere?
31. 31 Gabe Palmer Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:25 AM

@11 and others… people bi*t*h and moan when the Lindens leave things to residents, such as the mainland, which is a disgrace overall, then they complain when the Lindens actually do something beautiful, useful or good.

Bay City is a speck in the ocean in terms of land mass, just as Sistiana and the rest of “downtown” SL are. If you have a good product, people will come, there are all levels of taste and budget and something for everyone.

While some people do make money in SL, please in case you forgot and take it too seriously as we all do sometimes, it is a game underneath it all and with a few exceptions, most of us are here to have fun. While I too sell land, I am not in the least concerned about the Lindens building content, I applaud them for it- it improves ALL of our SL experience. Good job Michael and team!
32. 32 Montana Corleone Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:28 AM

How nice. Wouldn’t it have been better to finish roads in sims a year old first?

So, nice little restrictions so LL can show off to corporates. Isn’t that a little dishonest, when everywhere else you will still have ad farms and all the rubbish?

If you did that with other mainland areas we wouldn’t have all this problem to start with…
33. 33 Ari Blackthorne™ (Patent Pending) Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:42 AM

@ Donna and everyone else wondering about the funky pictures next your your name:

It is a new feature of WordPress. So, put your mug up there so we can all see your pretty faces when you post!

http://en.gravatar.com/
34. 34 inslmeghandench Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:43 AM

@ Everyone.

Here’s a link to the Linden Department of Public Works Official Wiki Page. Take a loo! :)

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Department_of_Public_Works:
35. 35 inslmeghandench Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:45 AM

@ 33, Ari. My mug? I’m still drinking from it… >>.<< lol Kidding, gonna try get a pic up now lol and Thank You.

(Sorry about the Link i just pasted above with the odd little and : as it was my attempt at html lol)

- Donna.
36. 36 Ari Blackthorne™ (Patent Pending) Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Oh but they are using Identicon
(Picture generated from your I.P. Address)

Will have to ask Linden to switch to Gravatar. :)
37. 37 inslmeghandench Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:50 AM

Explain Ari? It is your WordPress Image right? Confuzzling lol Perhaps Katt could do a Blog Post briefly on it! YAY

Ooh Vid Tut Torley! lol
38. 38 Jephry Alter Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:52 AM

Well congrats to the Lindens. I have to say that they made a good move here. Bay city is very well layed out IMO this just is one region and gives a prime example to new comers what they can do in SL. So we may have many more really cool looking regions like this instead of the Mainland cluster **** people call cool.

keep up the good work and whiners.. Progress is good
39. 39 Ari Blackthorne™ (Patent Pending) Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:00 PM

LOL -
(I know this is off-topic - but to answer a LOT of question here):

Identicon is an icon created for you based on your computer’s IP address. So you will (usually) have the same icon. This is created for people whi do not already have a profile icon.

How to get your own profile icon?
Create a wordpress blog (free) and upload a picture to your profile.

OR

Go to http://en.gravatar.com/ and create a free account. Upload your picture for your profile and any blog you post to that supports it will put your picture. if you have a web site, your name will link to it.

(That’s why many posters here have names that link to their blogs)

There - Lindens: I will send a bill for explaining this to everyone for you. LOL :p
40. 40 Broccoli Curry Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:01 PM

Yes please can we have a rezzing area so vehicles can be gotten out? It’s all well and good having roads if we can’t use them.
41. 41 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:09 PM

hehe thanks Ari!
42. 42 Katt Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:09 PM

@34, inslmeghandench, thanks for the link to the Linden DPW page.

@39 Thanks for explaining the “avatar” icons, Ari :)

Kudos to all of you who posted helpful directions and information!

– Thanks!!
43. 43 Broccoli Curry Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:19 PM

… and the first self replicating phyiscal prim attack queues up on the border at Barcola.

Lazy griefers don’t even bother to texture these things any more.
44. 44 Berry Steinhoff Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:22 PM

Fantastic effort! Love the Channel Island Asylum. Moving bridges is also a nice move. Congratulations.
45. 45 Marianne McCann Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:28 PM

I can’t to explore! Been spending a lot of time in Nova Albion, Shermerville, an Luna Oaks in anticipation. When will it be fully wired into the Sansaran continent?
46. 46 Partington Gould Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:34 PM

How is ‘double primming’ achieved?

Do you just mean there’s a lot of open space in the Sim, so more is allowed for residents building (2.0 Bonus). Or can LL squeeze more than 15000 prims out of a Sim now?
47. 47 Michael Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:35 PM

Hmm, we expect rezzing from Resident-owned parcels will be easy. But of course none exist yet! I’ll go put up some “rez here” signs on some parcels near the entrances.
48. 48 Pompo Bombacci Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:39 PM

What about resellin the land? Can parcels be resold?
49. 49 I love Bay City Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:40 PM

I think it’s amazing, Well done to all the hardworking Moles!!!!
50. 50 Vittorio Beerbaum Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:41 PM

It happened in the end. Welcome!!! :D
51. 51 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Michael, or Katt. Can you email me some Images of the Bay City please? (I can’t get on to see it but need some Images) Much appreciated!
52. 52 Simba fuhr Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Please Lindens, please, think about west haven and co, the auction prices there are incredable high. unpayable for the “normal” user.

i bet the most of bay city will be buyed from landbarons and will be empty and set for sale at giant prices, a very long time…

so lindens, please think about what you do there :)
53. 53 Barry Reiter Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:55 PM

disabling resell for a while to keep the landbarons away, and shouldnt there be a covenant?
54. 54 Salazar Jack Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 12:58 PM

I hope the residents of Nova Albion will join me in cheering the griding of the Bay City regions to the west and extend a hearty welcome to all the new residents due to arrive shortly. Look for a parade to be announced soon.
55. 55 Cybin Monde Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Right on, Salazar!!

3 Cheers for Bay City, the moles and.. the residents who will live in and shape our new sister city!!

i think i’ll go take a peek now!
56. 56 Destiny Niles Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Watch out for the manhole that a mole forget to cover ;)
57. 57 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:16 PM

*pokes Cybin* Here here. I think that’s the saying… LOL
Id love a plot in Bay City! Not gonna happen though >>.<<
58. 58 Rachel Darling Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:25 PM

@31 - To be clear, I think LL contributing to content could be wonderful thing…but this seems to clearly be a money-making venture that steps into the space of paying residents who’ve been sold for years with the idea that Second Life is their platform to explore and leverage for new business models. Now that those residents have put the time, research and work in, LL are making themselves into competitors in this sphere — and one with significant advantages in terms of marketing. Insofar as “moaning,” most people (myself included) do not complain about LL needing to create more content; this was never billed as their role. From my perspective, their 1st priority should be stabilizing the grid and the functionality for other pioneers to go forward.

I do in fact realize that some think of Second Life as a game; in fact, my business counts on it. That’s how I make a living in SL, and hope to continue to do.
59. 59 slingtrebuchet Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:26 PM

Cape Haven and fly South - or Barcola and fly West works fine for me.

The first building I came to in a quick whizz around was a very creepy asylum????? Is there a message here?

I got my name in the top 10 scores in the bowling alley. Fame at last - but probably shortlived. Easy to be in ther top 10 when not many more than 10 have played :)

The few griefers who drifted in from Barcola were soooooo sad. They were spewing crud from *plywood* spheres. Plywood?? Svrip kiddies!!!

These new sims will be interesting to watch. Lots of open space and water
60. 60 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:31 PM

@ 58, Rachel Darling. I do understand the point you are making, but I think that some people don’t realize that not all Lindens are employed to Improve Grid Stability, and some can’t even code or script in the slightest. The Lindens hired to code etc. do just that. Also id like to point out that I’ve noticed an Improvement in Grid Stability in the last week, havn’t you? the Gird has had much less bad reports (the status page) and Blog Comments are getting nicer! YAY Also, there’s been no Daily Downtime or DB Issues lately! Wooot things are looking up! :)
61. 61 Barry Reiter Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:37 PM

atleast one of the bridges seems to be already broken ;)
62. 62 Nye Mu Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:37 PM

Great to see it finally on-line, but I notice there does not appear to be an InfoHub in the city. Or have I just missed it?. If theres not then can one be placed there asap?

If a city is to be ‘lived in’ then it needs people who regard it has home, otherwise its just another place that one has to travel to. Hubs are meeting places and social magnets as (well as places to get info) and if you don’t own land then its the place you start from every time you log in.
How wonderful it would be to arrive in a busy city, rather than a random building, however nice, and have to travel to ….where? Bay City is big and if you are new, or just looking for new people to meet where do you start?
Many hubs have their own social dynamic where people come back often to meet friends. It gives a sense of belonging because you know if you just hang around long enough someone you know will show up. If they don’t new people are always arriving.
It only needs to be a small one, near one of the bridges or crossroads, just so we can set home there.
Bay City is a ‘new’ type of build and if we are going for a ‘thriving social scene’ lets have people who can make it home and identify with it.
63. 63 Steve Mahfouz Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Thanks for helping the residents’ real estate development businesses. /sarcasm off

I think any one of the current real estate development businesses could have done this just fine. It’s hard enough to do business competing against other residents. When you compete against the hosting corporation (LL), I’d say that’s a bit unfair.

Let’s see, maybe LL can go into the clothing business next ?
/sarcasm off
64. 64 Rusalka Writer Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Somebody got a discount deal on concrete. Why are all the waterways in prison? So much for enjoying a picnic near the river. And what about going for a sail? All you’ll see is the endless repetition of those concrete walls. No thanks. My only question is how it could take so long to design what looks like a Matchbox kit.
65. 65 Lees Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:50 PM

No place to rezz a boat? :-(
66. 66 Molly Montale Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:55 PM

It looks great. I wish that Moles had put their main names in their profiles. It would be nice to see who the builders are. :)
67. 67 Amalia Broome Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Just watched the roadway bridge go up to let a boat get through..then went over to the power plant..this is amazing! Simply amazing!
68. 68 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:01 PM

@ 66, Molly. Their names are on the Wiki. Here’s a Link.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Department_of_Public_Works#Residents_in_the_LDPW :)
69. 69 Disa Paine Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:11 PM

Beautifully built and you must ride the ferry and the trolley cars. Fantastic!
70. 70 Ruina Kessel Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:14 PM

I think I can understand why some people are upset.

However, I’ve been to Bay City, and while it’s pretty and nice and all … honestly, there are a ton of other resident-built areas that I like more and are more interesting. Just because something is sponsored by the Lindens does not automatically mean that it’s gonna be better.

And, do note, mentioned above is the fact that Bay City IS resident built. So …. :P
71. 71 Zeb Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:20 PM

I guess completing the abandoned roadway infrastructure throughout the world isn’t sexy enough work.
72. 72 Michael Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:20 PM

I’ve made a rezzing point at the middle of Cape Haven, and on Route 66 in Molesworth.
73. 73 Michael Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:21 PM

Moles are indeed making roads — we had a poll to choose the first route.
74. 74 topmate Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:46 PM

There comes a time when we all make mistakes, and its character building to admit to them.

I must confess a mistake I’ve made. I’ve been labouring under the misunderstanding that the LDPW was established in order to help Linden Lab fulfill its responsibilities in creating buildings/facilities that were to the benefit of its customers but which were significantly behind schedule. I mistakenly recalled that the road network and infohubs were specifically mentioned.

How silly of me.

The first LDPW project that the lab chooses to draw attention to on its official mode of communication to its customers is a primarily commercial build, for which LDPW workers have been paid significantly below market rate for their contribution, on sims which will now be auctioned on a parcel basis, at rates at which it would not be unreasonable to speculate would carry a significant premium.

I am a passionate believe in, and supporter of, the staggering creativity of the residents. Barely a day goes by in which I haven’t seen something which makes me marvel at the beauty of, or applaud the ingenuity of its creator.

What disappoints me is that the lab was able to leverage its position to communicate the need for its customers to contribute to public works via the blog, then takes those same enthusiastic contributors and has them produce a build that I do not doubt is excellent (because it is, after all, resident created) but which competes directly against Linden Lab’s own customers in an extremely unfair way.

Why unfair?

Because the build has been created by highly skilled creators which Linden Lab could not have got at market rates without the aforementioned leveraging of its position and then they further leverage their position to be able to market it to its entire customer base via that same channel.

Can a purely resident created large build project do the same? No, of course not, and there is the definition of unfair competition.

Builders of Second Life, I salute you. You have my heartfelt gratitude for having helped to make my time here so far so memorable.

Linden Lab? Poorly done, very poorly done.
75. 75 Hewitt Huet Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 2:47 PM

go to

http://journal-gazetteer.com/CurrIssue

And you’ll see that Michael explained himself on some of these posnts pretty well.

Me? Meh. I’m still undecided as to what a godd idea this is/was. Time will tell. Glad you finally finished, though and good luck!

/me looks desiringly at the unpaved road in front of his building…
76. 76 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 3:02 PM

@ 74. Linden Lab have brought attention to EVERY LDPW Project, and the Project as a whole on this Blog, the Official Wiki etc. It is not just Bay City that has been Blogged, but Bay City is Open Now, and so has been Blogged. I am sure every Project, as it is Complete wil be Blogged also.
77. 77 JetZep Zabelin Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 3:10 PM

This is great! I like the standards for road and canal sections (architectural sections that is), but maybe not so much FLAT land everywhere! This is right by one of my stomping grounds =D The bowling alley is a good social scene, but the cafe needs music. No cafe is ever without music! o.O I was unable to find the theatre before “My internet deid” !
78. 78 Marianne McCann Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 3:14 PM

@62

I suspect it’ll bne on HUB island
79. 79 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 3:25 PM

Here’s an Image of Bay City;
https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/images/2/26/BayCity2.jpg

The Image can also be found on the Official LDPW Wiki page here;
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Department_of_Public_Works
80. 80 RC Paderborn Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 3:43 PM

Sweet! Perhaps now that the LDPW has shown what they can do they can start on urban renewal by finishing all those half finished builds LL started so long ago. (You know, the ones on old and established sims that are now littered with ad farms, business in a box stores, abandoned land and junk prims.)

I do find it interesting that as I fly over the big map with “show for sale” selected, it looks like 1/4 of old SL is up for sale. Yup, need those new sims.
81. 81 topmate Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 3:46 PM

@76. Thank you, Donna, that was just the impetus I needed to have a little flick back through the blog to refresh my memory regarding the LDPW blog posts.

Interestingly, I discovered that since the LDPW program was launched on Friday Feb 8, there have been repeated references to Bay City as upcoming, something which, curiously, no other LDPW project has benefited from. It also appears to be the only one mentioned more than once, though I admit I have not had the opportunity to read 3 month’s of blog postings in depth.

It appears the only other projects specifically referenced as “coming up” were the terraforming of some void sims (which either have not been completed or sadly didn’t warrant a blog post inviting us to visit) and the poll for where the road building should commence. As many other commentors have noted, that is a project that enjoys widespread and uncontroversial support.

When perusing old blog posts, I also noted that the only other times that there are mention of land auctions are in reference to what I believe to be Linden Lab’s business to be, the selling of land to customers as opposed to competing directly against those customers in a patently unfair manner.

There was also a pertinent reminder in my reading of past posts that, when allocating land on Linden sims (such as the Linden malls), they have been allocated via a lottery to premium and basic members, as opposed to being sold to the highest bidder.

Thank you, again, for your response Donna, I have enjoyed the opportunity to educate myself further. I shall watch the progress of the LDPW project with renewed interest.
82. 82 cosa nostra Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 3:58 PM

@32 MONTANA ….. straight in the ‘bulls eye’ !

@42 KATT ….. please stop posting ‘emotional’ comments !
83. 83 Bay City - SLUniverse Forums Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:08 PM

[...] City I wonder how many millions of lindens these parcels will cost after leech barons bid them out of existence. __________________ Oh, don’t you…run a [...]
84. 84 Dakota Schwade Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:09 PM

“…the parcels cannot be terraformed, joined or divided by their owners…”

It’s the joining and dividing I am curious about. Is this just initially? Or forever?

Some of the parcel sizes are just shy of, or just a bit over, various tier levels. So you’d be buying something and have “wasted” tier capacity or be bumped in to the next tier.

So I’m curious about this statement.
85. 85 JetZep Zabelin Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:11 PM

You guys! The bowling alley is cool but keep going theres an archeological site
86. 86 im more middle class than you Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:13 PM

As much as I love second life, I think this presents the lab in a bad light. On one hand we had to fight to get ad farms band (although they are back) and then the lab sets parcel subdivision rules so the new emerging middle class rezzies will have a nice stepford wives sim to live on ..lol
87. 87 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:22 PM

@ 81, Topmate. It’s Ok, glad that I could help… I think lol
It’s an interesting Project to follow. :)
88. 88 Ciaran Laval Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:29 PM

@86 Shermerville which is 1km away is not new and that’s a stepford wives sim ;)

This isn’t a new concept at all.
89. 89 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:37 PM

Content creation against your own paying customers, and in direct competition with other residents trying to establish residential properties. I don’t think there is anything more Linden Lab can do to disappoint this paying customer.

This just sucks.
90. 90 sirhc DeSantis Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:43 PM

Well only had a quick fly round but I think its great - wtg Moles. A bowling alley called Hot Balls? lol I still have 512 left on mt tier that i was saving for somewhere - looks like i’ll be bidding
91. 91 foe Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:45 PM

@72, Thanks Michael Linden, it just got more interesting! :)
92. 92 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:48 PM

When struggling estate and mainland owners walk out the door remember it was LL that screwed them. What’s next LL going to start making fashion for the masses. Wake up.
93. 93 Mazok Nishi Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 4:59 PM

Congrats for the Buildings, just visited the Location, but my concerns even more raised … what about releaseing a Official Linden “supported” Community driven Shop Plattform … Linden seems to lost the Focus at least thats what i feel about the recent and not so recent behaviour changes SL isnt just a Plattform anymore, well Lindens you cant Compete with Plattforms like Cyworld or the upcomming 3Di Grid but as it seems Linden trys to accomplish something like a “guided World”, please refocus on your “We are the Plattform” credo …
94. 94 Davros Gausman Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:09 PM

I agree with a few comments up there, this is really just another kick in the teeth for us heavy investors. Ok of course we need places like bay city in secondlife after all thats what its about. Really though it isnt fair for Linden Labs to come along and promote in this way thats what i call a very unlevel playing field.

Theres a lot of pepole in secondlife have put there lives on hold to invest in a business what ever that should be. Then we get overnight emails saying are business costs will rise by 17.5% and then were told are land value is dropping by almost half and now were compiting against the very company whos ment to help us.

Tell me were will this all stop, I know when its only the end consumer left and Corporate pockets are getting fat.
95. 95 cosa nostra Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:16 PM

@92 martin

as I already predicted in previous blogs last weeks, the strategy is now fully focussed on getting the maximum of profit back to LINDENLABS itselve, and indeed you are right, next steps can be fashion, houses, etc ….be aware that they work also very close with ANSHE CHUNG ! Former content creators, developers will be outranged using the hard way ! (this happens also during wartimes, eliminate the intelligent and powerfull !)

For example, landprices dropped with 40 %, this will effect the virtual estate market, where older landowners will not be able to sell or rent there land further, look to the new open sim spaces (@dumppricing !), the only one who wins here is LINDENLABS cause they receive the full payment in; 1st the landprice and 2th the monthly landtier. If the market tumbles down, this has no effect on LINDENLABS cause they only sell the islands or lands (direct profit)….. ofcourse a nice strategy ! Therefore, anyone buying land is already ripped of the moment that person buys the land, cause the overflow of land will reach a point where nobody will earn a $ ….. and again that doesnt concern LINDENLABS cause they are already paid ! then the next profit is people abandoning there land due to ‘money losses’ and LINDENLABS reclaims the land back for free (double profit)!

another point is that ofcourse there are hidden agendas, it is only waiting for the next steps or moves to be launched within days or weeks.

look also how much video (help & support) they are launching, this only to keep the crowd low-profile and misleading them from focussing on what is really happening !

PAST STRATEGY
Second Life® is a 3-D virtual world created by its Residents
->the residents are building the economy

FUTURE STRATEGY
Second Life® is a 3-D virtual world created by LINDENLABS
->LINDENLABS is building the economy

cosa
96. 96 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:29 PM

Unfortunately I have to agree with Cosa. I’m really going more than weary and angry with each passing announcement and non event that only seems to benifit the pockets of the Linden Lab company. I would of thought they learned their lesson with the GOM and all the bad press that brought them. Apparently not.

(Too bad I cannot say here the real words I am thinking.)

I have no doubt this will escalate.
97. 97 Drongle MacMahon Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:34 PM

I had a nice electroshock therapy session at the end of the corridor on the first floor of the asylum. I feel much better now. But I couldn’t find a self-service lobotomy kit.
98. 98 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Sounds like a few people are paranoid… and lack faith in the platform and really… lack faith in themselves and their companies.
99. 99 Renee Faulds Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Hey Philip - hope you had a “wonderful” time in Europe while the asset servers bonked out everyday for 5 weeks. Where is your part of my $54,000LD tier Philip????
100. 100 U M Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:38 PM

If its Michael Linden it has to be good
101. 101 hugsalot Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:46 PM

I’m not sure why anyone would spend money and buy land in this new are, only to be restricted to only building period pieces from the SF bay area in the early 1900’s.

All people do on SL is sell stuff, sell themselves, or rent spaces for people those people who sell these things. As well as upteen thousand shopping malls, dance clubs, and advert signs.

So with that said how is anyone going to make a “bustling community” when (assuming they are trying to make money) will end up doing these same things anyway I mentioned in the previous paragraph, and still keep it looking like the San Fransisco bay area?
102. 102 cosa nostra Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:47 PM

@96 Martin

I am running my own business in RL, so I know really well how strategies, hidden agendas, etc … work!

The business we are in is a very competitive and agressive one. While competitors are going busted due to past dumppricing strategies, bypassing there fix customer base and going straight to the end consumer, we always stayed focussed; SUSTAINED QUALITY LEVELS, GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE, RESPECT BUSINESS & TRADING AGREEMENTS, CUSTOMER LOYALTY, NO HOT & COLD PRICING STRATEGIES, NOT FOCUSSING ON TURNOVER BUT ON 20 % PROFIT THIS AFTER TAX, etc ….

maybe a lesson LINDENLABS should try to put in there brains, if ya screw ya fix customerbase, ya screw ya own future, and this is what is happening now, I predict that within the next 6 months 50 % of the die hard SL users will move to other virtual platforms, platforms where maybe they can restart and hopefully will be treated and respected as REAL CUSTOMERS IN A VIRTUAL ENVIRONMENT !

cosa
103. 103 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 5:51 PM

@98 Donna;

Lack of stability, Lack of service, Linden Lab were lacking; not me. I pay them for server space I do not however expect Linden Lab to be my direct competition. I felt the service was lacking, I felt disappointed. With this latest news however; I feel screwed by the company that I once believed in. By a company that I pay a very decent amount of money to each and every month. To a company in which I have spent no less than 20K US since it began. I feel I have a right to bitch when that company decides they want not just my money but what ever little revenue I happen to generate.

Yeah I feel screwed. Faith in Linden Lab left long ago.
104. 104 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:00 PM

@ 103. They’ve created a social area, and a really nice part of the Grid, on the Mainland. There is enough room in the Economy for you too, what they have done is small and there are so many users and people who want land etc. Some will pay for the Linden Land, and others will STILL pay for the Land that Resident Companies Offer. The Mainland has been there since the start, there has always been land to buy on the Mainland and the Residents wanted the Mainland to be nice and cleaned up, and so Linden Lab has Invested in this, this is what the Residents, the Customers wanted. A nice area of Mainland. And that is what the LDPW has Created. And people will want to live on this land, to put a home that doesn’t make them any profit, which is what allot of people do. And they can do that at Bay City.
105. 105 Mazok Nishi Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:02 PM

“Sounds like a few people are paranoid … ”

Sounds like a few people tend to ignore what happen,what steps got taken, within the Last 3/4 Year ?

I do not Sell Land, nor i Build Buildings neigther i Design Cloths … but i do Buiness within SL and Donna i’m Posting with my SL Nick :)

And yes i constandly loosing my faith in Linden, not in their Technologie but in their strategic decisions. And as far as i know Faith isnt somthing you cant count on, but maybe i should ask my Tax Agency next time they try to get my Forcast, if they are Paranoid and lost faith in them selfs o.O
106. 106 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:03 PM

@104 People also want affordable shoes, dresses, pants, hair, vehicles. If this were anything but land ppl would be screaming their heads off.

That’s ok; their time will come soon enough. Obviously.
107. 107 Kulalye Anatine Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:07 PM

Is there a starbbucks or 7-11
108. 108 cosa nostra Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:08 PM

@ 104 Donna

yesterday = yesterday
today = today
tomorrow = mystery

BAY City is step 1 …… BAY City x 1000 is step 2 ….. but guess that ya dont understand what it is all about, to understand the big picture ya need to be a bit paranoid !

cosa
109. 109 Toy LaFollette Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Odd thing for me is its just a yawner….. I doubt if I ever will visit Bay City, unless someone I shop at has a shop there, then it will be a quick in/out.
Ive given up on stability, only log in a hour or so every other day. Got rid of all my land, ignore LL for the most part. I dont really care anymore what LL does, thats all in the past for me.
110. 110 cosa nostra Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:17 PM

@ 106 Martin

ANSHE CHUNG started with her 10lindendollar projects (this is only a sniff operation to detect impact on the market, see it as a test), CHUNG as main business partner from LINDENLABS will launch soon larger projects who will affect, skin, clothing, shoes, and many more affecting businesses small or large on the grid ! no one will be able to competete against prices between 1 l$ - 10 l$, only the mass volume/turnover counts here cause no tax is being applied anyhow, so it is 100 % profit for LL and CHUNG. Ok, the only cost is the bunch of chinese rl workers @ a ratio of 25-50 US$ per month !

who wins again ….. LINDENLABS & CHUNG !

cosa
111. 111 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:21 PM

@ 108. I fully Understand, I think it’s the Negative people, who have a closed mind don’t Understand.
If you think Negatively or badly about something, that’s all you will see. If you open your mind and look at the good, that is what you will see.

@ 109 & others. If you don’t have faith in the platform/services anymore, then you shouldn’t use it at all. I myself and others have noticed in fact that Stability and Service in the last few days has gotten better, and compared to allot of Companies Linden Lab does a great job. Things will go wrong, in life something always goes wrong, if a server breaks down, it happens and there’s nothing anyone at Linden Lab can do about it, but fix it. And they do, if a problem happens it is fixed and quickly. There are staff working 24/7 and they are always working towards preventing problems, improving Grid Stability and fixing current problems. But they can’t make miracles happen and it will take time.
They will never be perfect, what is perfection?
Negative people will ALWAYS find something to moan about, something that isn’t right.
Lindens experience the problems too, and are also Residents. Do you think they like having problems? No and if they could fix it all with a click now, they’d do it but it doesn’t work like that.

I wish fellow residents would wake up and embrace good change, and yes I believe constructive criticism is good, but all out negativity is not.
112. 112 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:25 PM

! cosa. Fact or Opinion? Because that sure is not Fact. Believe what you want, but I rest my case on the Paranoid matter, your post proves that theory.
113. 113 Toy LaFollette Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:28 PM

#111 I stay simply to be with friends I have made over the years. I find it quite obnoxios for someone to tell me I should leave if I state how I feel. I find it a poor argument.
114. 114 Ummm...Eh? Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:30 PM

Linden Labs is a PRIVATE company is it not?. It can make the rules, or break them. It can stop existing if it likes. It dont have shareholders, just backers. It makes the rules. Its published them, and we ALL signed up to them.
I find it amazing that anyone in their right mind would think that building a business inside SL is anything other than a pastime. They could cash out tomorrow, and what would you do. Force them to reopen, ?
Its a fun ride, but thats all it is. Your IP is worthless without SL to carry it, cos you cant take it out in a box.

The Lab owes us nothing, but they like what they are doing and we are keen to go along with it. We must be we built a world. BUT thats not the same as OWNING it. If they want to change the rules, they can. Last I looked competition is a fact in RL, but of course its all totally fair and open there isn’t it.

If you don’t like what they do, leave. Take your products to another place…Oh yes there isn’t one is there.
There is money to be made here, but look at the stats. Only 5% or less make anything other than pocket money. The Lab makes money of course, but then thats why they do it its a business. THEIR business.

Either help it work and pray that at some time in the future you can own and loose money on shares in the company, or cash out, or better still get a day job and have some fun here.

Just stop moaning its boring.
115. 115 U M Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:30 PM

Someone had to make this whole subject matter dark and bad now by bringup up ANSHE CHUNG……………..Gesh isnt things bad enough?
116. 116 Tsula Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:33 PM

-snacks himself with his paws- Get a real job people. don’t complain that LL is taking your money away. SL is a game, not a source of income. get off your lazy tails and actually work. that’s how you make money. i’m okay with people that are just trying to get a few extra linden and there.
117. 117 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:33 PM

@ 113, Toy LaFollette. The point is, you stay right? And your friends stay? And without Second Life, you’d lose contact with some of them friends right? Or you’d of never met them. Sometimes, I agree, the Grid can Suck. It makes me angry at time, heck I’m sure it’s even made me cry. But I go back to it, and I love Second Life because it’s taught me so much and continues too, and I have met great friends by using it. It DOES get better, yep it’s had a REALLY rough patch lately, but it will get better. I didn’t in particular mean you, and I’m sorry if it came across like that. But when people fail to see the good in something, and can only see the bad then that annoys and upsets me. And if I’ve offended you, then I’m sorry for that because it wasn’t my intention. :)
118. 118 Tsula Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:34 PM

-smacks himself with his paws- Get a real job people. don’t complain that LL is taking your money away. SL is a game, not a source of income. get off your lazy tails and actually work. that’s how you make money. i’m okay with people that are just trying to get a few extra linden and there.
119. 119 Sachie Bade Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Wow. I made a visit today, and it looks really good. It was like looking at pictures of Chicago after the fire. Go Birnham plan.I spent a lot of time imagining what would be there, what mess and glory would grow up in that space. Btw. I really loved the Chanel Island Mental Hospital. It reminded me a lot of The Cellar in it’s dingy abandon. I spent a lot of time exploring places like that when I was younger, and it truly brought the mystery back.

Just want to say thanks for making it, LL and the moles. Very brilliant.
120. 120 Toy LaFollette Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:40 PM

#117 Donna, please put the pom-poms away your becoming boring. I will always state how I feel and no amt of cheerleading will change my mind. Ive seen LL go from a fantastic idea, and platform to nothing that impresses me anymore. I have put years in LL and it has changed and I dislike the changes but I will stay, but not care anymore.
121. 121 cosa nostra Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:42 PM

@ 112 Donna

think ya are reacting too emotional, in post 111 ya almost fall in love with me and in post 112 ya want to chop off my head ! Always read and analyse prior than impulsive reacting !

anyhow, facts and opinions are sometimes very close to each other. Only time will determine if it will be a fact or if it was an opinon ! so dont shoot too fast with ‘words’ !

cosa
122. 122 Donna Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 6:46 PM

@ 121. cosa. The ! was a mistake lol My keyboard has it’s @ where the ” is and my finger slipped, but I didn’t realize until I hit Submit. I’m not reacting emotionally at all, I think if anyone it is the people who are so negative who are with the whole “My business is failing” etc. and then with your Anshe Chung comment….

Like I said people will always have something bad to say. :)
But as you can see from some comments on here, this project has mad allot of Residents happy too. I guess it’s the way it will always be, and with such a huge user base they are not going to be able to always make everyone happy.
123. 123 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:18 PM

@111 Yeah it’s always good to hear “If you don’t like it leave” Apparently I wouldn’t be alone in leaving. Yet you have failed to notice a great deal of the core of content creators are already out the door.

One day I will take that advice, well me and everyone else who is sick of hearing “if you don’t like it leave” then were will your precious world be? Oh that’s right! Slight flaw in your arguement as businesses do in fact NEED CUSTOMERS.

Good luck with your own attitude.
124. 124 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:23 PM

@114 There are 3d worlds popping up all the time. Open your eyes and your web browser. I am just waiting on Virtual World then I am outta here.
125. 125 Alvi Halderman Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:29 PM

i will go there make my SL hollidays LOL
126. 126 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:32 PM

Matter of fact Microsoft is set to open their own virtual world; now that they bought out truespace. Virtual Earth. My last post with the links were axed so cannot post external other 3d world links here.
127. 127 Oryx Tempel Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Oy! Put poseballs on the trolley benches!
128. 128 Spontaneous Radio Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:41 PM

@124 LOL You can try EA LAND / The Sims Online. lol oh yea starts to sigh “Another one bites the dust.

EA-Land Drawing To A Close
It is with mixed emotions that today we are announcing the EA-Land experiment will soon draw to a close. Since 2002, EA-Land / TSO has attracted a very special group of players (of which you are one) and we certainly appreciate your participation in the EA-Land community. The lifetime of the game has drawn to an end, and now we will be focusing on new ideas and other innovative concepts in the games arena. We’d like to thank everyone who has taken part in this online community as a unique experience in the virtual world.

So hopefully LL will get everything straightened out to grab the EA LAND people and get them in SL. It will help the SL economy.

Can wait to see what the auctioin prices will go for eith the Bay City Land. I want one.
129. 129 Paulo Dielli Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:48 PM

It’s pretty nice, but not very impressive to be honest. Many canals with all the same walls and bridges etcetera.

The only thing I really liked were the shadows under street lamps and objects in buildings. The shadows are obviously not part of the objects themselves, but probably custom made for every single ground/floor texture. It looks great, but what about the rez load for all those different textures?
130. 130 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 7:57 PM

@128 Robin Linden came from TSO. TSO sucked.
131. 131 U M Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 8:02 PM

good one martin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Sl isnt that bad as many say it is. Its about how LL doesnt care and shuts its eyes and ears to everyone but their in the bed sleeping partners. For too long LL has allowed people to suckup next to people regaurdless if their ideas are god or not. Its just who you know and how much you pay them.
132. 132 Nobody Fugazi Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 8:20 PM

Linden Lab seems intent. at present, at reducing the potential for residents to rise on their own… I cannot be angry with any entity putting their survival to the forefront, but I honestly feel that Linden Lab has lost that ‘loving feeling’ on this one.

I’m not angry. I’m just very disappointed in Linden Lab - especially the lack of response to those who have said similar things in this thread. Ignoring people will not go away. Google has a long memory and is short on favoritism…
133. 133 Martin Magpie Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 8:20 PM

Actions speak louder than worlds; I for one will be watching the land market very closely in the coming weeks. Especially my own.
134. 134 Razrcut Brooks Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 8:25 PM

Ok…how are some people able to post the lil pics above?
135. 135 Hern Worsley Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 9:26 PM

zzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
“Your world your toy town copy from real life”
136. 136 coventina dalgleish Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 9:58 PM

Well I went to see the newly touted design. Looked like Kansas with irrigation ditches to me did you people forget how to terraform. Just another toon town. I also noticed that the servers have been tweaked I have never seen conover numbers that high anywhere even on a new island bare naked. Well I suppose if you own the game you get the best. Oh and the sim crossings were effortless. It might be nice to expand this to the rest of the game not just some Linden conclave. I for one am tired of walking up to my head in dirt in a sim crossing or while flying warp out then back. Again lets have some of this expanded into the normal players grid. I am sure this will be a nice cardboard cutout perfect linden town for demonstrating how it really is in the game. Even with double prims a 2048 is difficult to build much on.
137. 137 Cocoanut Koala Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:02 PM

LL may not be planning to go into the fashion business themselves, but they are planning to funnel customers to the fashion, hair, skin, and other stores they think are the best.

Within the next week or two, they plan to replace “Popular Places” in the Search tab with “Showcase,” which now exists only on the the LL website.

On this tab, they will spotlight not just educational venues, places of interest, and the like - but also for-profit stores, including a category called “Fashion.”

These stores will receive a huge boon in traffic, customers, and profits, at the expense of their competitors who are not chosen to appear on the Spotlight tab.

(The fact that LL will allow people to nominate stores for the Lindens to consider doesn’t make this a good plan, in my opinion. It simply makes it also an easily-gamed popularity contest, with the Lindens still being the final authority on which stores people should go to.)

I think this will be terribly costly to those businesses not picked, and very demoralizing to those content creators not among the chosen. I don’t believe LL should be in the business of giving free spotlighting, advertising, and promotion to specific businesses of their own choosing.

In addition, it will unnaturally skew the economy, and make something of a mockery of Classifieds.

I don’t mind the Popular Places tab eliminated, but I believe that if the Spotlight takes its place, it should promote only non-profit venues and events.

coco
138. 138 Ken Zhao Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:21 PM

I got there via cape haven, it’s really a nice place. could we create objects on the road or anywhere in the public place?
139. 139 Verdana Klaar Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:29 PM

As an overall is nice, but not so impressive to me. Constant repetition of a same few good ideas, “RL-photo-like builds” and lack of playfulness finally lead to something simply… average.

Just my two cents.
140. 140 Katt Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:32 PM

Some information about The Linden Department of Public Works and what they’re doing:

“We are launching a new program this month that is all about improving the experience for residents living on or visiting the Linden mainland. We’re calling it the Linden Department of Public Works (LDPW), a project within which we will organise teams of resident builders, artists and scripters to create new linden content on our behalf.”

“What will we work on? Good question; basically, we will consider anything and everything that we feel will make the mainland more attractive, fun, engaging and interesting for new or existing residents. Initially, we’re looking at extending the city area which is very popular, so that will involve some new built up areas to the west of Barcola (joined via bridges to preserve existing water views). We’ll also be looking at new park areas, Linden folly builds, beautifying existing Linden land, better gathering places and seeding new mainland with themed builds. Some of the content may find its way into the Library in your inventories.”

- http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/02/08/the-linden-department-of-public-works/
141. 141 Elwin Jacobus Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:34 PM

DOUBLE PRIMMED!!! I hope that the rest of the mainland will also be so generously treated before too long.

Or is this a marketing ploy to sell the lots? In my mind it does create a bit of inequity to have some parts of the mainland with twice as many prims available as others.

What of all of us poor early adopters who bought land and, effectively, helped LL to become what it is today? Our land will be worth peanuts now!

Gee thanks for the “improvements” AGAIN!!!

I sincerely hope that the new CEO has a better head on his shoulders and requires a great deal more rigour from the developers and marketers than is evidently the case right now. Because if this sort of lunacy doesn’t stop soon …….

That said ….. kudos to the team of residents who created this environment. Let’s hope that more of the mainland can be redeveloped rather than introducing more sims into a volatile market.
142. 142 Michael Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:37 PM

A couple of points: there’s no requirement for builds to be in any particular architectural style. We hope Bay City will exhibit a consensus of style, but it’s up to the Residents!

There’s a rezzing-point on Route 66 just east of the big bridge into town, in … I think it’s Bay City - Molesworth. Rezzing points are kind of tricky; too many of them and spammy attacks become too easy. There’s a big internal water basin in the city wihich I’ll set to allow rezzing in the morning.

I think the texture load from Linden content in Bay City will turn out to be pretty small compared to the Resident-owned content.
143. 143 Rachel Darling Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:40 PM

Let’s be clear here — no one has said “Bay City sucks as a build or an idea.” In fact, it’s an excellent idea, and one that many other residents have implemented or are working toward implementing. Is it, however, a Public Works, in the sense that a park or a road is a public work? It certainly could be…but that would imply either free use or a minimal charge to pay for upkeep. Instead, we understand that the land will be auctioned off to the highest bidders as parcels, and the advertising for said land and auctions will be via the official LL blog…something no other resident/business owner has access to. As has been pointed out, this is the definition of unfair competition, which is the specific complaint that has been expressed — and an opinion we have every right to express. That is why there is a blog…to provide feedback to LL, be it positive or negative.

That said, let me offer some specifically constructive feedback. LL, what I would like to see you continue to focus on is supporting your customers and business developers, whose success ultimately ensures your success. Help us bring you more paying customers.

1) Give us a consistent, reliable grid, so that when we bring our real world clients and potential customers into SL, we maintain our (and your) credibility. This makes us money, which makes you money.

2) Continue to support us with efforts like the Solution Provider Directory. This is an excellent idea, and could be expanded to other areas such as a Business Directory for in-world stores, products and services, which is something that is desperately needed. In fact, this could also be a lucrative and legitimate revenue source for you…provide basic business listings for free, and sell expanded listings for a premium.

3) Continue the excellent recent efforts to expand the collection of documentation and tutorials on the system. We need ways to reduce the learning curve for new residents and our real-world business partners.

4) Please find more ways to highlight and reward the excellent content that has already been created by your residents. There are amazing things already in SL for residents to see and do, but people have to be able to find it. Perhaps an in-world rating system for sims/parcels or events, to replace traffic counts and the easily-gamed search?

5) Create/expand your coverage of in-world Events and entertainment, or farm out coverage to Reuters etc. and integrate it visibly on the official website. Help us get the word out.

These are just a few ways that I believe LL could legitimately leverage its residents to the benefit of everyone, without going into direct competition with those who are supporting its development and expansion. I’m sure there are many more, and I’d be delighted to be part of a focus group to help identify and expand on them, if you are interested.

Second Life is an amazing platform with unlimited potential, and Phillip had it right the first time around — LL is the solution provider, and the residents are the content creators. Please keep it that way.
144. 144 Electronics Aeon Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:42 PM

Just a query, is the Bay City region land auctions to coinside with the release of the new land store, hence the 7+ day release date?
145. 145 Katt Linden Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:43 PM

Hi Elwin,

Good question. The overall prim limit remains the same, land is set aside elsewhere in the region to use this option. Thanks for asking about this.

Double primmed is Object Bonus. From the Knowledge Base, Second Life Support Center:

“Object Bonus: *This is not a way to increase the number of prims a Region supports. That is fixed.* There may, however, be times when you want the default prims per meter for parcels to be higher than usual. This option needs to be used with caution because it can cause confusion; if raised, the sum of the parcel prim limits will exceed the Region limit of 15000.

A Region in Second Life (65536m in size) supports 15000 prims. This equates to roughly 4.3 meters of land for every prim supported; hence, a 512m parcel can support 117 prims.

If the Object Bonus were doubled to 2, that 512m parcel would support 234 prims. However, *the overall prim limit of 15000 prims for the Region remains (that cannot be changed), so in order to allow that parcel to be double-primmed, it would be sensible to set aside an equivalently-sized parcel that has no prims on it to balance this out.*

So when would this be useful? Imagine that you have a Region that’s mainly wilderness, with just four parcels of 4096m cut into it for rental. Because so much of your Estate has nothing but trees on it, you would be able to increase the object bonus to allow those four parcels a much higher prim count than usual.”

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417
146. 146 Verdana Klaar Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:43 PM

@135:

I had not noticed your comment (smile). And well yes, i agree with you; “Your world, your lack of imagination, of creativity and above all your absence of artistic sense”.
147. 147 Electronics Aeon Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:51 PM

um..another query, would it be possible to increase current mainland prim limits using the vacant land held by Gov.Linden?
148. 148 Mulare Vres Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 10:56 PM

When will a blog be dedicated to texture theft? one that speaks about the promises of two years ago.
149. 149 Broccoli Curry Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:00 PM

This seems to be another experiment in ‘zoned land’, ie there is a theme, an outline, and builds are expected to fit within those guidelines.

Haven’t many people been asking for some kind of ‘building rules’ for ages, to try and clear up some of the crap that is to be seen on the mainland?

Some people are never satisfied.
150. 150 U M Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:09 PM

Its nowonder, its nice we have this new location they pointed out. But if people can`t get inthe game or play at a ozy level many will continue to come here and complain

More on Trademarks

More on Trademarks
Friday, April 18th, 2008 at 1:07 PM by: lauraplinden

We want to address Resident concerns raised in the blogosphere. We know Residents have questions about our trademark policy, and we want to answer them. We’re responding to questions by email as quickly as we can. We also hope this post will help with questions and concerns. If you have others, please let us know by email to tm-questions@lindenlab.com.

1. Residents are worried that if they overlook a trademark issue somewhere, they might find themselves permanently banned from the Second Life world without warning. How will trademark issues be handled?

Residents should not worry about being banned without warning. If we have a trademark issue, we’ll just get in touch about changes that need to be made. Once the changes are made, the problem will be solved. For trademark issues, banning would be a last resort. We’d issue multiple warnings beforehand, and even afterwards, Residents would have an opportunity to request reversal of the ban by sending us a written appeal.

2. Some Residents are concerned about how to discuss Second Life. Residents worry that the trademark policy restricts their speech and want to know if it’s consistent with “nominative fair use.” How can Residents refer to Second Life?

Residents certainly can discuss Second Life and call it by its name. Our policy has specific guidelines here for referring to Second Life in a way that’s consistent with nominative fair use. There has been some confusion about trademark notice symbols (like ® or ™) and about following trademarks with nouns.

When referring to a trademark in writing, it should be set apart from surrounding text in a way that indicates that it’s a trademark. This is part of nominative fair use. Our policy provides a typical way to distinguish our trademarks from surrounding text. The first or most prominent reference should be followed with the correct trademark symbol (® or ™) and an appropriate noun to indicate what you’re talking about (so, for example, the “Second Life® world” or “Second Life® viewer”).

Now just to be clear–we’re only talking about the first or most prominent use. We’ve seen some blog posts using ® after every mention of “Second Life.” After the initial reference to the trademark at issue, there’s no need to use the symbol again. And there’s no need to use a noun again unless the omission of the noun makes it unclear what you’re talking about. So, for example, it’s useful to distinguish between different aspects of the Second Life services, like whether you mean the “Second Life world” (the 3D space) or the “Second Life viewer” (the application).

3. Is there an easy way for bloggers who focus on Second Life to take care of this? So they don’t have to worry about including a trademark symbol every time they post about Second Life?

There is. Check out the SLED Blog banner at http://www.sl-educationblog.org/ as an example of proper usage. This is a blog we support with a license that has a lot of great contributions by education-oriented Residents. You’ll see that under the blog name, in smaller text, there’s a descriptive byline that explains what the blog is about: “K-20 Education Using the Second Life® World.” You’ll also see that this byline takes care of the trademark symbol and the first noun after “Second Life” for the blog posts.

For blogs that are just about Second Life, this is an easy way to go. But it’s important that the blog name be more prominent than the byline. And if the name uses the words “SL” or “inSL,” it should follow our license for this (or be under a separate written license like the SLED Blog).

4. Some bloggers have expressed concern about having to go back and change references to “Second Life” in blog posts they wrote before the updated policy. Do they have to do this?

We’re not going to ask bloggers to go back through blog posts predating the policy to change how they’ve described Second Life.

5. If it’s not possible to use a trademark symbol or a noun when describing Second Life (for example, due to space constraints), how should one refer to Second Life?

It’s probably OK to omit the trademark symbol and noun in these circumstances. We’ve addressed this in the section of our policy here about business cards (see paragraph 4 of the Guidelines). The goal of this part of the policy is not to be heavy-handed, but to provide guidance on how to discuss our products and services consistent with trademark law. This can be a complicated subject. We’ve tried to provide some clear examples, but no trademark policy can cover every possible situation.

6. The inSL logo license prohibits displaying the logo with disparaging material. What is “disparaging”? And who decides this?

“Disparagement” is a “false and injurious statement that discredits and detracts from the reputation of another’s property, product, or business.” Under the license, Linden Lab has sole discretion to determine what’s “disparagement.” We’re huge fans of free speech, fair criticism, and parody (like Get a First Life). But it’s important to get your facts right. If you’re ever unsure whether certain material is “disparaging,” it’s best to display the inSL logo elsewhere with content that you have no doubts about.

7. Does Linden Lab have exclusive rights in the letters “SL” combined? Is any use of “SL” in a product or service name, business or organization name, or domain name going to be a trademark issue?

Yes, we have trademark rights in “SL” in connection with our virtual world goods and services. Any use of “SL” cannot infringe or dilute our trademark. Uses in brand names that are likely to present trademark issues include (but aren’t limited to) those where “SL” refers to “Second Life” and the use doesn’t comply with our license to use “SL”, and those uses for or related to virtual world goods or services.

8. Why was the trademark policy updated? And why now?

We updated the policy to address changes in the Second Life community and virtual worlds in general. In the past few years, the Second Life community has grown significantly and there’s been a proliferation of other virtual worlds. Our trademark policy has evolved along with these developments.

A key term in our earlier policies–and central to trademark law–was to “avoid confusion,” which means to avoid creating confusion about what’s provided by Linden Lab and what isn’t. When the Second Life community was much smaller and generally unknown to the public at large, our policy allowed Residents to use certain trademarks on their websites (which the policy called “fansites”) to show their connection to the Second Life community. At that time, for example, a disclaimer on a Resident website that showed the Second Life Eye-in-Hand logo could be enough to protect against confusion. That was because the early group of Residents was incredibly familiar with Linden Lab and could easily distinguish Linden Lab’s website from Resident sites.

With the growth of the Second Life community and a greater awareness of Second Life by those outside the community, it was increasingly important to take precautions to ensure that when people saw our trademarks (particularly people less familiar with Linden Lab), they knew it was a product or service of Linden Lab. In addition, as more virtual worlds emerged, it was important to make sure our trademarks were used only for Second Life and not for virtual worlds provided by others. With these developments, we needed a more robust trademark policy. So we published an updated policy around January of 2007 and then again this year.

9. How is it that Linden Lab can update its trademark policy? And why can’t Residents be “grandfathered” in under the earlier policies?

Trademark policies frequently evolve to deal with new or different circumstances. This happens because trademark owners can change how they allow their trademarks to be used. It was important for Linden Lab to update its policy to avoid confusion given the growth of the Second Life community and virtual worlds in general. We can’t “grandfather” in earlier uses of our trademarks because the uses could create confusion now. The whole goal of updating the policy is to avoid confusion. However, we want to work with Residents who need time and help making adjustments. If you need extra time or help, please write us at tm-questions@lindenlab.com.

10. Why is the trademark policy in the Terms of Service?

The Terms of Service are the conditions under which Linden Lab offers the Second Life services. One of those conditions is adherence to our trademark policy, meaning that any use of our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life–must comply with our policy.

We realize that this isn’t the extent of the questions. Please spend some time reading through our FAQs. We will be updating them to include the Q&A above. If you don’t find what you’re looking for there, please write us at tm-questions@lindenlab.com.

This entry was posted on Friday, April 18th, 2008 at 1:07 PM and is filed under -Miscellaneous. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
151 Responses to “More on Trademarks”

1. 1 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:13 PM

please use your energy on more added value things ! trademark or not, if SECOND LIFE keeps sucking you will not need a trademark anymore moving forward !

cosa
2. 2 Obvious Schism Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:20 PM

“We’ve seen some blog posts using ® after every mention of “Second Life.” After the initial reference to the trademark at issue, there’s no need to use the symbol again.”….

Have% you* never$ heard@ of£ irony?
3. 3 Otenth Paderborn Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:23 PM

Much better than previous announcements. Thank you for listening and taking the time to respond to concerns.
4. 4 Trinity Nabob Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:23 PM

Who cares. There is problems with in world transactions right now. Lets focus on that shall we.
5. 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Thanks, LauraP, for the update on the trademark clarification.

We could split hairs about some slight details here, of course :) But it’ll give me personally enough to think about for the next few days.
6. 6 Vivienne Daguerre Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:24 PM

On my sim in a cave I have cave paintings, like those done by cave men in France (Lescaux I believe). In such caves it is common to find handprints of ancient artists dipped in their painting medium and applied to the walls. For fun, in that vein, and acknowledging the “ancient Lindens” I put coloured handprints on the wall using the SL eye in hand logo. Is this an infringement or should I remove them? The cave art appears on no website or anywhere outside of SL.
7. 7 Sweetly Blessed Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:26 PM

How about adressing Resident concerns where the STABILITY of the GRID, LOST INVENTORY ITEMS, GRID BEING OFFLINE CONTINUALLY, PEOPLE LOSING MONEY IN THE GAME BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS is concerned! This is far more IMPORTANT than this lengthy post on Trademarks!!!
Why do you aviod answering our repeated questions and concerns and busy yourselves with adding new features that totally bork the game and add a new viewer, etc.. without proper testing FIRST?
This is where we need, want and deserve ANSWERS; REAL ONES THAT MAKE SENSE AND ARE TRUTHFUL, I might add…
Continual Bandaids on your gapeing wound are not even coming close to serving ANY purpose!!
We are not stupid and the patience of all of us is wearing very thin. Why not spend time on a stable grid which is what we are all begging you for? I just don’t get this? It makes absolutely NO DAMN SENSE!!
Sorry, but this has gotten insane and way past the point of being something we are willing to deal with on a moment to moment basis!
8. 8 thegrimmling Snook Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:27 PM

I mentioned on my personal blogs variations of “SL” or “Second Life” not thinking about the whole trademarking thing. Does that apply too?

Oh, I mean my MySpace blog and it was no reference to any good or services.
9. 9 http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/04/18/more-on-trademarks/#comments - SLUniverse Forums Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:31 PM

[...] More on Trademarks � Official Second Life Blog I find this comment kind of funny my self. " 7. Does Linden Lab have exclusive rights in [...]
10. 10 thegrimmling Snook Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:33 PM

(in responce to post 7 aka Sweetly Blessed’s post)

we all been asking about parts of that. I rememebr that one asset server they found after it went missing last summer. But compaired to other vrtual worlds Second Life IS the most flexible and most advance.

Seeing SL rolls out these “progressive” updates, we get to play with features other virtual worlds do not have. Because of this we have to take the good and the bad.

I personally wish they lock down tight the loss of assets like money and inventory items better, but SL is a game that you chosen to play. No one forced you to register and spend time playing it.

And if you are loosing money, check your transaction history, I discovered it was one of my groups leetching cash from me in their monthly bill paying.
11. 11 Jacek Antonelli Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:36 PM

Thank you for this clarification, Laura. It has addressed my concerns in a straightforward way.
12. 12 Obvious Schism Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:40 PM

Ok fair enough. But can we mention SL in this blog? Or can someone tell me how to find the appropriate symbols on my keyboard? Its never been an issue before so I think they are all rusty. My mothers name is Sally Langford and she is 83. Can you put her mind to rest that she won’t be visited by SL lawyers in the middle of the night after she has tagged her initials all over the London tube system?
13. 13 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:40 PM

@10

grimm, for new customers, free accounts or premium members entering this game, there is nothing mentioned about a BETA PROGRAM, people should be informed prior than creating the account that they accept the ‘terms & conditions’ first ! right ?

for example, linden can say that SL is a BETA PROGRAM where every hour an update or a crash or something else can happen! not doing this is against any BUSINESS LAW ! it would also prevent from people spending money in here, buying land, or going to premium accounts !

so again, if I buy a new car, the seller doesnt tell me that the engine is still a BETA version, my car breaks down every day or has to go back to the service station ???? how would you react on this, is this not a rip off !

does this explain ?

cosa
14. 14 Soundsmith Kamachi Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:42 PM

It is good to see the clarifications on trademarks (which you shoudl have doen earlier). I do not see that what you require is different from what other companies do.

BTW: This is a post about trademark. Is it impossible to post something that is NOT related to performance or other technical probelms (from which we all suffer) without getting this message thread being filled up with discussions about these problems?
15. 15 Silence ≠ Death* « Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:43 PM

[...] - Vale sempre a pena lutar. Os ‘coisos’ ouviram o nosso silêncio!, e no blogue oficial já lá está um post sobre o [...]
16. 16 Jessica Hultcrantz Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:44 PM

And while we are at it, this blog post is unique enough to be considered as a work protected by copyright as stated in international laws, so don’t quote me! ©

This whole trademark ™ thing has gone ridiculous.

GO FIX THE SL-GRID ™ !

Geezz this insanity requires everyone to keep the The Second Life® Brand Center chart printed out or in bookmarks to be able to follow all the rules…

Free speech? Don’t think so with all these rules.

And oh, did I mention… go kick the monkeys in the ass(et) department :)
17. 17 Jessica Hultcrantz Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:46 PM

And yes the above post IS sarcastisc on purpose if anyone missed that :D
18. 18 WILBER Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Yawn…irrelevent post, why worry about the trademark and how people are using it. Do you think you should be focusing your attention on matters that if fixed will make you even more richer, like grid stability.

The poor performance of the grid as of late along with some less than appealing changes like the lowering of the values of some 13000 island owners land will make the trademark issue a moot point soon. SL will be cooked, its already painfully obvious that thousands of owners have been struggleling to make it work here considering that daily for a period of time transactions have been failing and its now gotten to the point that people are not purchasing items for fear of loseing their hard earned money because of the non funtional grid.

The large joke going around in circles is that everything is broken but the ability of tier and monthly fee collection. I couldnt agree more. I have paid tier of 590usd for a couple years now and cannot for the life of me remember a time that my monthly fee was deducted late but i do remember times when the stipend was late.

We do appreciate the apologies you have made for things being broken but after so many they do seem to be somwhat hollow. All we ask is that you listen to your customer base when we say that we want stability over bling. thank you for all you are doing and dont get me wrong, I love this game and we all want only the best but it is all in your control and if you are swerving all over the road your surely going to throw some of the passengers out the windows.
19. 19 Itsa Game Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:48 PM

This is a game - don’t forget this!
20. 20 thegrimmling Snook Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:49 PM

(responce to post 13)

But realize when you joined you are subject to SL’s TOS and their is thier solftware and their physical hardware and for the most part can do what they wish with.

And for some of the issues with stability and how scripted items work. Most of the contents of SL is “user generated”. SL is only responsible for any scripts they produce or if it involves their physics engine.

And as you mention Business Law, your using their privatly owned and ran product. So Real World business law does not apply.

Linden Labs can tomorrow decide that to own a store or sell anything in SL can require a 20% charge per a sale and it would be legal seeing this is THEIR software, THEIR hardware, and THEIR virtual space.

better way to put it, they allow you to use their products, you have no legal right to anything that even touches their software.
21. 21 Kit Meredith Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Laura, thank you for posting about this and continuing the dialogue. I think we still have some work to do, in order to make sure there’s complete clarity about the policy, but this appears to be a step forward.

One question, though - you conclude by writing:

“The Terms of Service are the conditions under which Linden Lab offers the Second Life services. One of those conditions is adherence to our trademark policy, meaning that any use of our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life–must comply with our policy.”

On its face, this would conflict with some things that Robin Linden said at the last office hours she held on April 8 about not applying the Terms of Service to activities outside of Second Life. She seemed to imply that out-of-world infringement would be handled through RL channels, not the ToS. Would you please explain this apparent disparity?
22. 22 Captain Noarlunga Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Bottom line is that they need to do this before the IPO……. everything else that is being done lately is to enhance the value and desireabilty for prospective shareholders. Fixing the grid is not a priority…..investors look at the returns, not the blogs.
23. 23 Wildefire Walcott Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:55 PM

Thanks very much for the clarifications; this was actually really helpful. I now return you to your regularly scheduled irrelevant blog comments…
24. 24 Obvious Schism Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:55 PM

@ Vivienne - As your attorney, my advice is to remove anything and everything that remotely resembles anything else. This includes the caves themselves as they could be considered copies of other holes that exist (or have existed). Its better just to have nothing at all, as then there is no possible infringement on anything.
25. 25 JayR Cela Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 1:59 PM

Why and the heck didn’t you all do this clear, concise, description in the first place??????????????

JayR Cela
26. 26 Naima aya Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:01 PM

I think this stuff is something that is really boring Linden labs…. :| and now is boring all residents about a symbol ™ or ®. Image that all trademarks ask to use that.

I wonder know why u have a tiny smile on the bottom of the page :)

BTW that trademark really don’t mess me, what mess me Is how the things are going and most part of it is affecting the residents ( a mean the honest ones) and the thief are still laughing on us.

What a world, damm even on a Second life there is something doomed.

Cy ™
27. 27 Alicia Sautereau Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:02 PM

as my email i have sent in regarding the logo, domain name and general crap hasn`t been answerd in lie, ohh, 3-4 weeks atleast, feel free to give me a reply here if your gonna ignore me

http://www.klsl.net

as said in the email, slowly piecing together a new site wich will take another month or 2 to complete as i have service to revamp first befor any of your so called trademark BS

so, what the hell is the answer on the godd@mn domain name use of 2 letters + sl + extension?
28. 28 Vincent Nacon Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:03 PM

@19: nope, it’s a platform… it’s only a game if you turn your sim into a game. ;)
29. 29 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:04 PM

@20

grimm, oops, I have a VAT number in RL and all my tier to linden is invoiced to my RL company !!! mmhhhhhh ………..so guess they have to comply with law and trading agreements ! right ? if they screw me, I will screw them back !

if ya buy land, same like in rl you pay your tax, but the land is yours, so i dont see any difference, they promote it anyhow as a VIRTUAL WORLD WITH VIRTUAL LAND FOR SALE ! so if they take ya land tomorrow and ya have paid ya tax it is illegal and I will prosecute !

also going back to the trademark subject, this means that from now on, I can use any SECOND LIFE logos, slogans, etc …. out-world ! because no rl laws would apply on this !

cosa
30. 30 Mortus Allen Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:04 PM

Thats all fine and well though my burning question is how do make the little circled R and TM symbols in the first place? Not everyone knows how to do this.
31. 31 Garth FairChang Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:04 PM

Have you registered ‘Hippo’ & ‘Grid’ ?
32. 32 Cincia Singh Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:06 PM

WTG laurap for an intelligent and condensed version of the application of trademark law to our own little virtual world. And @ all the off-topic flaming … and whining … I think SL should charge you a fee for providing this blog for you to use to sharpen your rapier wit (blatant sarcasm) and display your offensive attitude toward anything that doesn’t meet your immediate needs. It’s a game we’re playing, and you’re losing the game. Ok, I’m back inworld and gaming again.
33. 33 MR Little Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:07 PM

I don’t think many residents are upset using the ™or ® on say their blogs that are relating to some biz venture.

However using ™or ® in casual written communications is just silly, have you *ever* seen anybody write:

“My Dell ® keyboard just broke, so I dug up an old Packard Bell ® keyboard I had stashed in the closet.”

“Last night was fun, but i had too many Bacardi ® and Cokes ®”

“Can anybody help? My Ford ® Mustang ® wont start, I think it’s the starter, are the Autozone ® starters any good?”
34. 34 Linden Lab Clarifies Trademark Use « Dusan Writer’s Metaverse Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:07 PM

[...] Clarification here. [...]
35. 35 Eladrienne Laval Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:10 PM

This is a LOT clearer than before…

Now, how about those crashes?
36. 36 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:10 PM

@33 - fantastic ;-) …….. lmao
37. 37 Obvious Schism Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:11 PM

So how do we get the ™ or ® symbols? Its driving me mad
38. 38 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:14 PM

type it like this obvious (c) & (TM)
39. 39 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:14 PM

oops ….. this one also (R)
40. 40 R H Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Where do you avatars get the idea the Second Life™ environment aka world is _a_ game? It allows the creation of many games within it’s confines, and I do mean confines. Wasn’t that long ago we were clearly told by a LL rep here that “all your IP belong to us”
If you bring IP into SL it is LindenLab property.
SL is not a game, it is an environment and exists in the Real World and has already exposed itself and it’s management to Real World repercussions.

Thanx for the clarifications Lauraplinden. One of the rare clearly stated posts we have seen recently emanating from LL®
41. 41 Hopeless Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Who Cares

No one in their right mind is thinking of building or creating anything until there is a stable platform to work with.
Hundreds of lost transactions a day, $’s of lost dollars. I’ll worry about copyright infringement when I can log on long enough to have someone look at my stuff.

Hell it’s Friday. The system won’t be up long enough for me to do anything until Tuesday.
42. 42 Lee Ludd Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:20 PM

#24: “… Its better just to have nothing at all, as then there is no possible infringement on anything.”

Be careful. “nothing at all” ends a famous sonnet by Archibald MacLeish, and I am sure it is still under copyright.

“There in the sudden blackness the black pall
Of nothing, nothing–nothing at all.”

http://poetry.poetryx.com/poems/793/
43. 43 topmate Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:22 PM

This is remarkably generous of the lab.

Concerned with the growth of virtual worlds (?), the lab has been magnanimous in the extreme to act to protect those other worlds. Now, thanks to the implementation of the trademark policy, anyone reading about “the platform currently known as not first life or third life, but something in between” on a blog or website will be in absolutely no doubt about which of the virtual worlds is so unstable and frustrating to its customers that those customers managed to post 150 exasperated comments to a post in only 18 minutes.

Its generosity almost unheard of in a competitive business environment, for a business to ensure that its competitors aren’t tarred with the same brush. Lab, your users who do not waver in their level of support for your respectful treatment of us, salute you.
44. 44 Kyder Ling Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:24 PM

I don’t know exactly how I feel about this. On one hand, it does kind of crimp on some things in world, but at the same time, I am sure there are people who aren’t smart enough and think that websites like ‘men’s second life fashion’ are 100% endorsed and operated by LL.
45. 45 Hopeless Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:24 PM

32 and all you Linden wannabees and free loaders. Talking about this topic is the real off topic conversation. How can anyone seriously think about this crap when I know 2 dozen people who can’t pay their tiers because their businesses are going bankrupt.

Get rid of the camping, bots and fix the damn bugs. I guess if you don’t have any property, that you’ve paid for in Real dollars you can stand back and cheer the fanboys on. I love the ones who say, go ahead and sell more for me, that’s so much BS because if you had paid for your account you would be just as upset as the rest of us.

Today they sent me a customer satisfaction survey. The grid was down, support was down and the phone lines were not working. And they had the gall to send me a customer satisfaction survey.

Damn I can’t wait until the next shareholders meeting.
46. 46 Hopeless Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:25 PM

One last thing.

All week long this system has been crashing. All week long they have been screwing with it. Now the weekend is here, it’s down again and they want to clear the blog of all the “Bad” topics so noobs don’t see how bad things really are.

What next a Torley post?
47. 47 Nimrod Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:25 PM

I wrote to the mentioned email address perhaps the next day when all of this was first blogged here, but got no answer back. Also sent a support ticket as FAQ improvements and it was closed with a sorry, that is the wrong place comment.
Recently I added my site to the brand center and placed the inSL logo in a hope that is good and someone will contact me if not.
But still have an unanswered question. What about machinima? Is that enough if we just add an inSL logo for example to the credits? Is there any difference now between fan videos and commercial videos filmed in SL?
48. 48 Web Page Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:26 PM

I was wondering the same thing 37 but I didn’t know how to ask!
49. 49 Argos Hawks Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:29 PM

In response to #7: “Uses in brand names that are likely to present trademark issues include (but aren’t limited to) those where “SL” refers to “Second Life” and the use doesn’t comply with our license to use “SL”, and those uses for or related to virtual world goods or services.”
The trademark application covers virtual worlds and businesses that provide virtual worlds. It does not cover businesses that provide goods and/or services for use in virtual worlds. You can claim that it does, but that doesn’t make it true.
50. 50 Obvious Schism Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:29 PM

@42 Thank you for pointing that out. Somehow or the other those words came out of my mind in that order. I can’t swear to not having heard Archibald say that though. But there is the slim possibility that I am Archibald himself
51. 51 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:30 PM

@32

I sold my 2th island back to linden, my 1st one I just cant let my customers down, as hard as it is, I cant !

what do I do, cancel my account and let in one month the island being whiped away by LINDEN, knowing that everyone living there is going to enter one day SL(r)(tm)(c) seeing that there assets are returned to there inventories and there investment is gone !

it is a big descision, but I will play fair and gonna pay back the money they paid for it at root …. thats how I handle customers in rl or in sl
52. 52 Mmmyes Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:31 PM

I wonder if they are going to try registering Second Lag, much like Canadian Tire tried (in vain) to register Crappy Tire a few years ago because so many people referred to it as such.
53. 53 cosa nostra Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:33 PM

in my post 51 I had to refer to post 45 (not 32 !)
54. 54 Anonymous Resident Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:37 PM

It seems things are going without talking to residents… land prices are dropping in 2 weeks, all land owners will have their land devaluated… Is this right for residents ? Or is this better for Linden Lab ?

I won’t discuss longer, but there’s a form of disrespect from Linden Lab I can bear anymore, though I was admirative in front such Linden Genius and creativity… All goes upside down these last month.

Stability is going worth, OK. We must understand that Second Life is a pretty much complex software and it is not easy to develop.

BUT, communication and respect to residents that have financial issues would be welcome and more than normal.

Since then, I was addicted to Second Life as many residents here. But I found that I could free my creativity in a open world, so I switched to OpenSimulator. And I feel so free now.

Viva OpenSim open source !
55. 55 Moveing Out Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:37 PM

LOL!!!

“Any use of “SL” cannot infringe or dilute our trademark.” you do that all by yourselfs eveytime you screw up the grid.Fire the lawers and find some good coders and put them to work debugging your spaghetti code.
56. 56 Alicia Sautereau Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:37 PM

alt + (numpad)0 1 5 3

™
57. 57 Not Again Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:38 PM

This blog post about protecting Linden Labs’ trademarks is longer than the blog about protecting thousands of SL users’ copyrights.
Linden Labs’ priorities are clear.
58. 58 Linden clarification on Trademark | Lost in Bananaverse Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:39 PM

[...] Read the post here - More on Trademarks [...]
59. 59 Gerald Wylie Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:42 PM

Oh, come on. This is all getting a bit ridiculous. My email blog doesn’t have a trade mark symbol and if it has to be used every time the words are used then the words will not get used. Is that good PR.

Soon you’ll be insisting that Donal Pleasant has a subtitle about you when he says, “You only live twice Mr Bond!”.

Crazy
60. 60 Cocoanut Koala Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:43 PM

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

coco
61. 61 Not Again Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:44 PM

p.s.; this very page (and much more of the site) contains several trademarks (registered or not) which are not owned by Linden Labs. None of these trademarks are noted with a “tm” or (R) symbol.
62. 62 You must be joking Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:45 PM

And of course, users can be aware of and satisfied in the fact that in the United States of America, there is such a thing such as FREEDOM OF SPEECH… and that includes both spoken and written word. Even Trademark law cannot interfere with that basic legal right. Freedom of speech means that so long as you are doing so in a not-for-profit setting, you can say Second Life or Linden Lab or SL about as much as you like, in any form you like, complimentary or disparaging, and there is not much Linden Lab can do about it. IF they decide to ban you for doing so, you CAN take them to court for abuse of your rights of freedom of speech.

Sorry Linden Lab. I respect your right of copyright and trademark and I will even stand by you if such is truthfully abused, but anyone in the business knows that trademark law is pretty much to protect your BUSINESS interests, and has very little to do with non-business areas such as BLOGS.

Corporations try to throw their weight around all the time and they often rely on people’s ignorance of and fear of the law… but as with Copyright Law there are limitations as to the realm and applicability of Trademark Law… and that pretty much is delineated at the point where business and for-profit ends. Just about anyone has the right to write about Linden Lab and Second Life in a not-for-profit, personal-blog setting and pretty much ignore any supposed “Trademark” issues. That’s what’s nice about living in this country– you can pretty much say or print anything you want and as long as it’s not slanderous or libelous… there’s not much anyone– certainly not a lightweight like Linden Lab– can do about it.
63. 63 Plum Planer Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:49 PM

I tought only professional companies had trademarks .. some schoolkids playing with there little toys do not need that .. come one linden kiddies wake up and start working on our game again instaid of trying to be pros.

Plum ®
64. 64 skull oyen Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:51 PM

i cant tp wth
65. 65 Medhue Simoni Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:51 PM

Who the hell cares. Get the grid stable. We already know LL only cares about money now. Personally, as a business man, my main concern is my products. I could give a crap less about names or crap like that. Service and reliablity has been lost in sl for money. I have heard here and here about sl’er revolting but now that virus is spreading. Give back some confidence to your customers LL. Give back some money for that matter. Around the world, people are hurting, and its getting worse. LL is quickly becoming like all the rest, take your money and give u nothing. “The TOS says we can do that”. Well u keep thinking that way and see where that gets u.
66. 66 richard Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:52 PM

thank god we are not bring the real world in here
67. 67 CronoCloud Creeggan Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:53 PM

Okay, my blogspot URL has SL in it: http://ccslfashionista.blogspot.com What I want to know is if you don’t want people to use SL in that fashion or not?
68. 68 Fim de greve e clarificação! at Geta Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:53 PM

[...] CANECO! Não tudo, mas uma clarificação do LL! Bolas, estou tão contente! Parabéns rapaziada! E parabéns blogs portugueses, que ficaram no [...]
69. 69 You must be joking Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:55 PM

BTW everyone, next video tutoral coming from Torley Linden:

“How to put Copyright and Trademark Keyboard Controls (aha!) In Your Second Life Literature!”

“Hi, this is your favoriet watermelon connoseur, TORLEY LINDEN (copyright tradmark). Since the recent LL announcement of trademark policies, a lot of you have been wondering how you can conduct everyday speech, since you don’t know how to place TM and (c) symbols in your writing (such as I just did.. AHA!). Well, I’m here to tell you how…”

/me waiting for the day that the VR world will be based around Open Sim or some competitor that is somewhat less analretentive and more productive than the current company…
70. 70 Obvious Schism Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:59 PM

This is the most interesting debate I have had so far in SL ™ or ®. Normally I would go in-world™ or ® to talk about these issues. However, I find it easier to come to this blog now. I am glad that there is a forum for such topics because without healthy and open discussion, a resolution - or perhaps reconcilliation - is not possible. I will report back to my friends in-world ™ or ® via the wonders of the web networking facility. However, they, like me, may perhaps feel that there is a mismatch, or even a schism, between their perceived virtual reality and the defense of a corporate position. It is still a fascinating construct nonetheless, and one which I obviously will endeavour to follow to the best of my abilities.
71. 71 Medhue Simoni Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 2:59 PM

The crazy part is that most business in sl are towing the line. Informing users and giving support where we can. While LL worries about it name. No1 is hurting the name but u, LL. Taking money for thing that “NEVER” work right is wrong. Dont advertise sl as a place to do business when u cant keep it running and the systems u have in place do not work (the search). All classified ads for the past month should be returned if u had any decency. At the very least.
72. 72 Fellatione Aabye Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:00 PM

Dear Linden Labs,

I personaly am afraid that you are KILLING what once was a fun world called SECOND LIFE. (or killing all criticism in the national and international press?)

OK that you protect your names etc .. but the use of it ??? Pardon my french but even one of the most powerfull companies US based (Microsoft, Pepsi, Doctor Pepper… won t begin a lawsuit or ban someone who dare to speak out the name )

Apparently YOU only care about trademarks (ahum ahum … a smart company would have registered all the trademarks years ago) …. Now on the sudden (Now there is competition coming on the net)

But in my opinion wouldn t it be better first to focus on your “reliability” inworld and in real world ? Because, you are getting branded as unreliable in all points in the outside world.
73. 73 Sahfur Silvera Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:01 PM

Somehow I think we can manage to differentiate between canon and not canon if we were able to even run anything after the tech bugs and almost inevitable tech fixing. An amount of common sense is by default inherent within your user base (except the sad few I will neglect to mention may seem at times as if this isn’t the case). What will we do when everything has an (R) by it in the world? Already useless words plague most languages. Why add to the distopia? Did it ever happen upon your minds that perhaps… just perhaps… The irony that is almost standard in all instances where people who use (R) alot, particularly in blogs, is actually painting a negative self image of corporate paranoia for the ones enforcing it? I am not a product sales rep or anything but typically people shy away from (R) and such because it annoys them. In most areas this has been a very fair transition, yet I feel this needs to be said, although I am certain many others are already saying exactly what I am.

Example: SL (R) (TM) (C) Is a fun place for me to go Timmy! I would love to say more about SL (R) (TM) (C) but my finger gets a cramp from having to type so many annoying characters into my keyboard so I will let you stay with WoW. Have fun Timmy (R) (TM) (C)!

Ooh isn’t this fun? Irony. Its a joke which calls forth despair and debilitated fingers. Ha.. Ha.
I am a huge supporter of SL in general (R) (TM) (C) and the people behind it, but doesn’t it seem that continually shoving (R) in front of peoples face may begin to make them question what else is being done? This is like spending the money you would use for grooming a pet so it can be adequate material for a talent show, on talent show entry fees. “Make sure you make sure it isn’t falling apart before you label your art.” :D Enjoy spinning the next announcement.
74. 74 B00tsy Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:04 PM

@46 exactly..thats why.

I was thinking the same thing when i saw the new blog post.
75. 75 Ice Stawberry Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:04 PM

I really support most of your goals and your ways to achive them. But the need to specify if one talks about the Second Life (R) World or Viewer seems unnessecary complicated and artificial to me.

If I talk about SL I usually mean the complete product which includes server side and viewer side. Is that the Second Life (R) Bundle then???

Best Ice
76. 76 Tao Takashi Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:05 PM

Thanks for the clarification but I still think this is a big big big mistake you do here. The message of what Second Life is has been mostly created by it’s residents and thanks to the fansite guidelines. All those sites out there helped creating that message. They helped doing marketing and they helped making Second Life as big as it is today.

These guidelines have been somewhat revolutionary and the success of them show that it’s the right way to do marketing these days. The new policy is a big step backwards. You had a great crowdsourced marketing strategy in place which is now at stake. You want to control your message but there is no control of a message anymore these days (maybe there never was). The market is the message. Linden Lab always was better than many others at listening to people and this is what you should keep doing. Adjust your platform according to the message the residents create and you will keep a win-win situation.

Additionally I wonder who should own the name of a virtual world they inhabit. Should it be the platform provider or should it be the people. I think the latter. It might be revolutionary in terms of old-school marketing but we are not talking about old-school businessed here, we are talking about the future of the internet.

For me all of this means to concentrate more on things like OpenSim and AWG in order to have a choice between a more and more restrictive Linden Lab and other providers. I am also not sure if I should or even be allowed to present Second Life at conferences/barcamps. Probably not.

I hope you will understand that we are one. There is no Second Life without the residents and there is no Second Life without Linden Lab. We equally created it and thus I think we equally should be able to use it’s name as we see fit (with the exception of alternative virtual worlds). So bring back the fansite guidelines. They made sense, the new ones don’t.
77. 77 Want clarification Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:07 PM

OK Second Life has a Trade Mark…So what?
What Id like to Know is As your a Virtual Company In Real World What About The REal World Companies that Trade And Do business With in Second Life Are There Trade Marks Protected Too?
Also Us the Gamers /Creators who make Second Life What It Is Is our Content Our Work Our Scripts Our Builds Protected By CopyWrite Laws? oh wait thats intelectual copywrite or something?
What I want Is FairHandedness If u on band Wagon About Copywrite Then All Companies wether Virtual or Not Should Have there Brands Legally Recognised as CopyWrite Too Lindens Or is it same Senerio as with the world in reality? ONE LAW FOR US ONE LAW FOR YOU!!
And on another note off Topic If you Dont stop being Biased to us ATI Graphic card users your gonna lose alot of creative Talent from Sl and alot of money too..as i cant stay connected for more then 10mins a DAY!!!!!
78. 78 Grace Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:08 PM

Thanks for addressing the community concerns in a clear (and timely) manner - it is very much appreciated.
79. 79 Renee Faulds Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Why don’t you try fixing SL than spouting your mouths off threating residents !! Jeez you people really have the balls don’t you !!!!
80. 80 Geneko Nemeth Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:12 PM

Use the “Character Map” application. Both Windows and GNOME ships with one. ♪
81. 81 Renee Faulds Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Threating residents over trademarks with no notice perm ban!!!

How about we tkae action against you for inventory loss, business losses. Some RL Law firm going to OWN YOU one of these days!!!

Phil where your 2/3rd’s of my monthly tier !!!!!!!!!!!
82. 82 Kyder Ling Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:16 PM

“Why don’t you try fixing SL than spouting your mouths off threating residents !! Jeez you people really have the balls don’t you !!!!”
–#79

Well guys, let’s begin checking this post out. First, there are ambiguous issues with SL that need fixing. Great feedback there. And then we have an accusation of threats, accompanied by 2, (count them) two exclamation points. And then an acusation about LL saying that they have testicles, followed by four exclamation points. Needless to say, the addition of this extra exclamation points increase the importance of this comment and thus must be worth reading, maybe even several times.

Okay really though, could you fools stop being so pathetic. If you want to make a jab at a big company who’s product you cannot live without, I would suggest you at least put some damn time and effort into it. Post “Since the last patch, I have been crashing more often than ever,” rather than “ZOMG FIX SL!!!!!!!!!”

Seriously, I am begining to get on my last nerves.
83. 83 FlipperPA Peregrine Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:17 PM

I agree with Tao. After encouraging many of us for years to do what you’re now saying isn’t allowed, you’ve now managed to make most of the popular Second Life a violation. To wit: SLUniverse.com, SLExchange.com, SLProfiles.com, SLTrivia.com, SLGuide.com - the operators of these web sites, myself included, have spent a lot of time, money, and effort promoting these sites with the Linden blessing. That’s to speak nothing of all the work done on search engine optimization, which now is all for naught.

Bad, bad move. I’ve very disappointed. So much for helping the community.
84. 84 nika talaj Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:17 PM

I notice that Reuters continues its casual, unmarked usage of both “SL” and “Second Life” in stories on its SL-branded website, “Second Life News Center”. I assume that usage within all news stories (and blog postings) on SL-specific sites that are named/branded in accordance with your policy can follow that casual use convention as well, yes?

I further note that SLX (SL Exchange) continues operation with that naming, with this statement on their home page:
“Second Life and the inSL logo are trademarks of Linden Research, Inc.
Virtuatrade, LLC is not affiliated with or sponsored by Linden Research. ”

I assume that SLX has worked out their naming and branding so it is in compliance, yes? (After all, Ansche Chung is an investor!) I ask because this may point to a satisfactory outcome for some of the site owners who have been expressing concern here.
85. 85 Veronica Quackenbush Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:18 PM

@6 Vivienne:

Thanks for mentioning your caves, I will certainly come and check them out :) but I don’t think you need to worry. As LL acknowledge under question 6, they’re huge fans of parody. If you’re worried they might get nasty, offer to build another cave as a DPW project, then it won’t be unofficial anymore ;)

@14 Soundsmith:

I understand your frustration, but allow me to paraphrase your question: Is it impossible to post something that IS related to performance or other technical problems in blog threads about these problems? The answer, sadly, is YES, most of the time it is impossible, because comments are routinely closed on these threads (This is not disparagement, it may be injurious but it is not false, anyone can back it up with numbers simply by counting recent blog posts. Look for the ones glibly marked [RESOLVED] B)

So I can sympathize with the people who complain about technical problems here. They have nowhere else to go. Also, while some of these complaints are mere whining, people do sometimes have useful things to say about technical issues–useful workarounds for example. I’ve recently discovered a very useful and efficient workaround for deep freezelag (the kind where you grind along at 6 frames per minute) and I’ve been trying to make noise about it here (and in the JIRA), but I have no idea how many people catch it, since I can’t put it in the threads that *matter*

FWIW, here it is again: if you’re having major trouble with freezelag, try the following

(1) create an alt (or use one you already have)
(2) launch two instances of the SL viewer (preferably different versions, like one 1.19 and one 1.18), one with yourself, one with your alt
(3) your overall average fps will go down, but you will have no more freezelag; basically, you fill in the troughs with the peaks, smoothing out your overal frame rate

It’s crazy, it’s counterintuitive as hell, and IT REALLY WORKS, so I think it’s worth making a noise about, even if I can’t do it where it belongs.
86. 86 Say What? Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:19 PM

If SL is day-to-day basically marginally functional… then the SL brand is basically worthless… so why bother to protect a brand that has become the metaphor for things that don’t work?
87. 87 Delgado Cinquetti Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:22 PM

@6 - I’m almost certain, that your art on the cave walls are permitted. Providing, of course, they are not used in conjuntion with Satanic ritualistic orgies.
88. 88 lauraplinden Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:22 PM

@21 - Thanks, Kit. The TOS governs your relationship with Linden Lab and your use of the Second Life services. Your relationship with us includes how you use our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life. Was the office hours discussion about infringement of Resident intellectual property on sites or services that Linden Lab doesn’t operate? If so, that’s something that Residents should take up with the person who infringed or with the other site or service. This doesn’t fall within our TOS because it’s not about infringement on our services or your relationship with us. Hope this explanation helps.

@ 27, 47 - I’ll look into what happened to your emails and make sure you get responses. We’ve received lots of email questions and are trying to respond as quickly as we can. I’ll also make sure questions submitted as support tickets get re-routed to the right place. Thanks for calling this to our attention.
89. 89 Incony Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:22 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life

suggests we put this blog in our inventories and lose it…

“A more disturbing fault, believed to be caused by the same issue, is “inventory loss” [84] [85] [86] in which items in a user’s inventory, including those which have been paid for, can disappear without warning or permanently enter a state where they will fail to appear in world when requested (giving an “object missing from database” error). Linden Labs offers no compensation for items that are lost in this way, and will not even record the data for debugging purposes if the user is not a Premium subscriber [87]; although many in-world businesses will attempt to compensate for this or restore items, they are under no obligation to do so and not all are able to do so. This fault alone has caused some users to abandon the world.[”

“trademark object missing from database”

“Linden Labs offers no compensation for items that are lost in this way, and will not even record the data for debugging purposes if the user is not a Premium subscriber ”

yup.. lets get priorities right… you first..me second… never mind who`s money it is that maintains the value of the trade mark.
90. 90 Don Duke Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:24 PM

If multi-billionaire Bernie Ecclestone can’t trademark “F1″ I doubt LL would win a court case regarding “SL”.

quote: “It is no secret that Bernie Ecclestone has tried several times and at great cost to trademark the names F1 and Formula 1. He has, for the most part, been unsuccessful because of the generic nature of the phrase, “formula 1.” ”

Just like “a second life” is pretty generic, imo.

quote: “Repentance is the renewal of baptism. Repentance is a contract with God for a second life.” (St. John Climacus, 6th century AD)

My 2Cents©
91. 91 Cynthia Deere Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:25 PM

I understand your concern with your own trademark but how can you really enforce it when you allow copyright infringement against companies like Disney every day and do nothing? Case in point, many of the pajama companies and Shirts R Us
92. 92 Jay Townsend Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:29 PM

@ 85 - also counterintuitive, my freezelag got better when i turned voice on. I never ran it. I had a customer that wanted to talk at me a couple of weeks ago though so i turned it on to listen to them. Since then, no freezelag. maybe an odd coincidence, maybe nothing to it, but for some it may be woth a try.

On the daily issues, bugs, and brokeness plauging the grid…
It is high time a CEO calls the top people at LL into a conferance room, hands them a 300 page printout of the posts of the increasingly discouraged residents made to this blog over the past two months. Tell everyone to start reading, and leave the room. Come back four hours later and say everyone seated in rows 4, 7, 16, and 22….you are fired, leave. Now for the rest of you we will have one of these meetings every month untill this *holds up a copy of the 300 page handout* is better. Now, go get to work.
93. 93 trademark issue | Ana Lutetia Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:31 PM

[...] will find in the official Second Life® blog some clarification about the trademark policy that was concerning a lot of SL™ bloggers as posted [...]
94. 94 Sigmund Leominster Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:34 PM

Now there’s a blow. Since joining SL™ last November, I’ve been able to use my intials, SL, quite happily. My blog and podcast, “SL on SL” will now have to change! I believe I should be able to claim a copyright on SL© as “Sigmund Leominster” but clearly need to conform to the trademark of SL for the Second Life™ brand name.

Henceforth I think I should be OK with “SL© on SL™” withiout getting into trouble.

I also suggest that folks responding to this posting also respect MY copyright and refer to me as SL© or Sigmund Leominster©” on first referencing me in an article. After that, feel free to use plain old Siggy - just mark it Siggy© first time aorund.

OK?
95. 95 BrightAngel Summers Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:37 PM

Its good you adreess the issue of trademarks in your name ,because i was getting a little annoyed looking up sl in search and finding it belonged to so many websites when i wasnt even looking for secondlife i still came up with the outages amount of websites out there , soo yeah its good you brought it up, now residents can now protect them selves from imposters of their own trade marks as well, including my own and others i know just by looking at them ; old timers are ok but the newer ones need to learn to stop taking other peoples works and start doing their own .

as for the other issues, wish you would address them in the same manner as this like lost inventory lagginess , etc to manyt to adress here but every one will agree LL , you need to adress all issues soon not a year later.
96. 96 IAm Zabelin Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:37 PM

Hi lauraplinden

When is your next in-world meeting / office hours on IP theft of user content ? And who is taking leadership of this important issue.

I realize it may be less important than SL trademark, but to the millions of users the reverse is true, so hopefully that should balance it out.

Can you please set up scheduled office hours for this.

thx
97. 97 Dave Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:39 PM

Clear first old bugs before programming and adding new ones…
98. 98 Wynochee LeShelle Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:44 PM

Happy to have my own brands, logos, signs for my biz, wherever on planet or on technical platforms. No need to refer to a company wich name I have forgotten most of the time. So, no need to struggle with symbols or kilometers of written blabla. I feed them with fees, automaticaly each month, but doing my own thing, without using the name of any other or this… company. Have enough to do, to hold my inventory fit and to find the small moments, when a transaction is maybe, for a minute, possible, or to bring and edit a thing on my area. The use of this technical platform will maybe last as long until some better ones will appear somewhere on globe for less or no fees. Actual status of potential competitors are so far able, to give a picture that we will see some quality alternatives in near future. They are on their way, for free, for less fees or for reasonable fees and conditions. It is all about stability, customer service, quality, user-friendly behavior and price. In case of better conditions, somewhere, the move is ever just a mouseclick away. Easy decision, then. Would not be the first emigration of a population on earth, since egyptian or iceage times, for example. This is also possible in digital times, to vote with feets, or, as said, with mouseclicks, if things are uncomfy here and mor comfy there. Exact so easy is that in result.
99. 99 Reality Check Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:44 PM

#33 HAHAHAHA sad but true.

To my understanding that is what this post has stated, the each time someone used the words second life together, would need to put a copyright logo next to it, and not only that but to follow it by a noun. You have got to be kidding me right.
I would like to see this enforced on anything other than people using the trademarked name to sell or advertise products or services.
In common dialog or written communication, I have nor will I EVER use a trademark sign, that is just stupid.
And to those who are complaining about so many people making complaints about connectivity and inworld issues. If there were not so many issues, people would not need to complain so much.
Linden Labs really does not care about its residents in its virtual world, they are just another large corporation interested in their monetary gain. Does this really surprise you.
And to the post about some linden stating “they own all IP addresses” GET REAL. I seriously hope this was a mistranslation.
To those who actually pay for this game, i really feel sorry for you. And yes it is a game, whether you use it for business or pleasure.
I think that LL is going to find themselves in some serious legal battles in the near future. Because their program not only messes with the viewer now, it also messes with other applications running on your pc. The code writers need some refresher courses perhaps? If the new versions are an attestment to their abilities, it is a sad sad day indeed. LL stop hiring coders that have no clue how to fix things, and only create more problems.
Oh and why report an issue? They never get answered anyway. I learned that after posting several times on an issue, well over 6 months ago, and to my knowledge still having the issue.
I always laugh when i see a resolved issue on the welcome screen. It is amazing they work for LL when they obviously have no idea what a simple word like resolved means(that is like a 3rd grade vocab no?)
Do we need to give the employees of LL a reeducation?
I know i always make sure to tell people of the thousands of issues i face every week with this “game”.
What makes me stay are the residents and nothing else.
LL get ur head out of your rear!!!
100. 100 Wondering Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:45 PM

I know this may be a silly question, but I can’t find the answer.
Particularly considering the way its worded in the TOS.

How does this affect wearing or giving away clothing with the hand logo on it in world.

The wording sounds like even wearing existing stuff made by Lindens could be against the TOS.

I have some I made awhile back and some others made by others that I acquired as freebies. Can I wear these can I continue to give them away?

Does Linden Labs not want people wearing the logo in world, that could be called displaying it depending on interpretation.

Separately, what if I sell them for $1L (I cant find a multi vendor that handles $0L)
101. 101 Trinity Nabob Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:50 PM

@40 it’s what ever ppl want it to be. If I log on with the intention of treated it like it is a hobby, fun, or a game that is MY business. If I log on and try to start a business that again is MY business. It is not however up to another subscriber to tell me how to treat SL. As it is MY business, so mind your own and stop telling me how to enjoy MY second life. YOU don’t pay MY tier.

Cat Cotton
102. 102 IAm Zabelin Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:50 PM

@97 … ok, let me amend that (96)… “to the users that create any content of value the reverse is true”
103. 103 Vint Falken Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:51 PM

While you are in full compliance with the usage guidelines described here, you may use the “Second Life” name on your website, as well as the related logos and graphics available at Toolkit, solely in the form described there.

YOU gave us the fan kit. YOU promoted using ‘Second Life’ and ‘SL’. The fankit content is now on our HD’s and our websites. As far as I’m concerned, this does not go away.

For blogs that are just about Second Life, this is an easy way to go. But it’s important that the blog name be more prominent than the byline. And if the name uses the words “SL” or “inSL,” it should follow our license for this (or be under a separate written license like the SLED Blog).

So if your blog is titled ‘my second life’, ‘Ilyas’ Second Life’ or ‘Das Tweedes Leben’, you’re still screwed? Same if your URL contains Second Life or SL without two generic nouns? *sighs*
104. 104 IAm Zabelin Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:52 PM

Yeah, agree 101, if its just a game … for many its a bloody (far too) expensive game!
105. 105 Ciaran Laval Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:53 PM

Why can Information week ignore these guidelines and yet Second Life bloggers who promote your product are threatened with having their accounts terminated? Why are Second Life residents being held to higher standards than the mainstream press? If it’s in marketing material I see your point of making everything correct, if it’s in general conversation I do not and this is ridiculously restrictive. Please grow up and recognise fair use for what it is.
106. 106 Toy LaFollette Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 3:56 PM

LL will do as they please whether we like it or not but I do see the idiocy of protecting Rome while its burning to the ground.
107. 107 uh-oh Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Wow this is confusing. So if I mention Second Life tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. when typing to some on or in a blog i have to use this? I can see if i am endorsing SL tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice.
having to use it. Or using Second Life tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. as a brand name. Maybe adding this topic about using SL tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. To the tip of the week that is put out.
I wouldn’t want to get in trouble for using Second life tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. the wrong way.
108. 108 coventina dalgleish Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:03 PM

This has little impact on the experience of second life. Perhaps it would if the game functioned. Day after day of total failure of the services you advertise. Soon it will not matter because sales have been so bad because you can not control your environment that many will be leaving because I/we refuse to expend more hard cash on something that fails to deliver the promised product. Phil stated last year the focus was going to be on fixing the bugs in the game. I have seen no improvement and in fact more have been introduced.

LINDEN LAB it is time to assign your priority’s your trademark will just be a memory of another failed dot com if you do not.

Actions do speak much louder than words as demonstrated by this product.
109. 109 Thili Playfair Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:05 PM

*crash into wall of text*

Fine fine, more words,

Now how about trying to enforce it instead of making up more stuff that you dont even bother checking up on anyway, i could just quickly mention the “no gambling” rule as one, oh it take me less then 5 min to find a place that has one still, and no its not old at all.

Report?,
dont make me laugh, never seen any of my reports ever get a reply or fixed issue and its going on for months , no make that over a year now, only thing that is “fixed” nowadays is just workarounds instead of a fix, quite lame.

Need a oar?, cause you guys seem to be “rowing” alot from your crowd of people that made SL what it is, and completly deaf to our cries /point jira , sorry that place is a mess and alot of them are months old nothing fixed yet.
110. 110 Greve findada… « Education in virtual/real worlds Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:05 PM

[...] Acabou o período de greve bloguista SL®. Efeitos? Um post no blogue oficial “deles”. Não é mau na medida em que se percebe que até estiveram atentos a esta greve…mas é [...]
111. 111 Linden Lab tries to explain the new trademark policy again… and fails.. — mrtopf.de Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:15 PM

[...] Linden Lab tried to clarify again what is and what isn’t allow regarding the use of the term S… because of all the confusion and protests going on. [...]
112. 112 Neural Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:18 PM

It’s amusing watching Linden Lab™®©(wtf)(bbq) slowly strangle themselves to death with all this sort of sillyness. Keep at it guys, it provides humor while we wait for you to make up the next excuse for the daily teleport/transaction/inventory failures.
113. 113 BloodDoll Lulu Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:20 PM

crazy
114. 114 Tom Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:31 PM

I have seen alot of sites using the official secondlife Logo on their header fot the web page so I understand where LL are coming from but to those wondering about the words like second life SL ect that are used in normal type on a web page be it in blog chatting or general talking in type text you wont have to put a ® after every word unless you use their brand name on products or services like headers ect not in chat type.
115. 115 R H Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:32 PM

@Reality Check Says:
…
And to the post about some linden stating “they own all IP addresses”
…

IP refers to _I_ntellectual _P_roperty
not TCP/IP addressing

sheesh!
and then you have the temerity to complain about others’ command
of vocabulary
That’s Funny™
116. 116 SecondLife - How To Make Money In Second Life » More on Trademarks Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:34 PM

[...] post by lauraplinden [...]
117. 117 Ishtara Rothschild Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:34 PM

You forgot one most important point. Quote from http://secondlife.com/corporate/brand/insl/guidelines.php

“Do not display the inSL logo in or on materials or items that in Linden Lab’s sole opinion: [...] Are pornographic or include adult or mature content, or content that is not displayed in a manner suitable for a PG rating [...]”

This is quite a slap in the face for the industry that keeps SL popular and continues to draw new people onto the grid. The same can be said about your new policy regarding classified ads. Quote:

“You may continue to advertise mature events, services, objects, businesses etc…, but any pictures or text related to any such classified must be PG in nature.”

It’s a bit tricky, to say the least, to advertise mature wares while meeting PG standards. In more concise words, if you can’t say “penis” or, Quetzovercoatl forbid, show a prim genital, it becomes pretty much impossible to advertize the aforementioned article. Not to mention that the mature flag for classifieds has become utterly pointless now.
And not to speak of LL’s habit to delete advertisements without a refund - imagine the editorial staff of a magazine would do that, not publish an ad but charge for it. Or to mention LL’s habit to only (overre)act on ARs instead of enforcing the same rules for everyone, which creates an ugly business environment where people can easily get rid of competitors by screaming “their ad shows a nipple!”

How exactly do you expect SL to become the next stage of the internet without adult content being available and easy to find? Look at the current world-wide web: It became popular through porn, and now that it has turned into a serious business platform, there are more adult websites than ever. Which doesn’t keep any reputable company from creating an internet presence. My guess is that SL owes an even larger part of its popularity to adult entertainment than the 2D internet. Trying to hide what attracts the masses will only lessen the attractivity of this platform to investors, once the user masses have left.

So, why exactly does even a prim genital in a mature classified ad have to be hidden from the public eye? Perhaps because the adult grid has been turned into a place where everyone (and all ages) can sign up pretty much anonymously and without an age check? Well, iIt’s either Disneyland online or the SL adult grid, you can’t host both on the same servers. Unless you hurry up with the long planned, long overdue and almost forgotten age verification. Any news on that?
118. 118 Chriz Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:35 PM

This is all very well… but to quote your own words:

“Outside the United States, do not use these trademark notice symbols. Instead, use the appropriate trademark attribution notice, for example: “Second Life and LindeX are trademarks of Linden Research, Inc.”

So perhaps you need to clarify that for all of us non-American SL ‘citizens’…

Second Life and LindeX are trademarks of Linden Research, Inc :-)
119. 119 coventina dalgleish Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:38 PM

I see your legal department is still trying to justify their existence.

Nice work Lab

Perhaps if you listened to your customers requests a little more there would be less critical acclaim in the blogs and then salient responses would appear like magic.

You can judge your success by the quality of information sent to you in these blogs.

I observe a common theme in the data supplied to you in this forum and it is not at all positive.

Nothing is BETA after eight years, unless you can not come up with another excuse.

I have never seen an online game that makes as many updates with the frequency that Linden Lab creates them. Perhaps it is time to go back to the once per week update, at least we would know when to expect it and if it did not occur that would be even better.

Sorry for the second blog post I normally try to refrain from taking space from others but the condition of the game warrants another response. It is totally frustrating to be totally frustrated everyday with this product. If not for the friends made here I would not bother because the rest of the experience is painful.
120. 120 Donal Randt Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:43 PM

People act like this is the only place in the world that is changing their policy on use of their trademarks. Well guess what? It isn’t. There are changes happening everywhere.

Linden Research owns the trademark, they can choose who uses it and how it is used. That is what owning the trademark means. They are not compelled in any way to allow anybody to use it. Just the same as you are not compelled to allow somebody to borrow your car simply because they want to.

And since I have already interrupted this whine-fest I might as well add: How does griping about grid stability have anything to do with Trademark use? And with that - do you people posting in this manner actually think that the people who work on the programming end of things have dropped what they are doing to get involved in the Trademark issues? Or do you think that maybe, just maybe, there are people in the legal department that deal with legal things, and that the programmers and technicians are dealing with programming things? I know its wild and crazy, but maybe it’s just crazy enough to be true?????

To anyone looking to actually understand the trademark policy, it is pretty simple as stated in this blog. But then again, so was the first one. To the rest - let the whining continue…..
121. 121 Montana Corleone Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:43 PM

@6 Cave art like you have would be regarded as pastiche, or parody, and exempt therefore, as it falls under Fair Use, much like Andy Warhol used the Campbell’s soup tin in a painting.

@ 84 and 105 Use in news reporting is a Fair Use example, otherwise news reports would have a terrible time every time they mentioned a company and product.

In the same vein, use in speech is allowed, and that includes chat, IMs, forums, and comments on blogs. You don’t after all, say to your bf/gf “I’m going to get a Coke® from the fridge.” So actually, in commenting on forums or blogs, you don’t need to bother with marks at all.

The blog here is well covered by LL themselves and TM ownership pretty obvious. On your own web site or blog, as the rules state, if you are in the US, you need to add the marks just to the first or most prominent occurrence, plus the disclaimer notice. If you are outside the US, you do not put the marks (mostly because such trademarks have not yet been granted, where applied for), just the disclaimer notice, which would normally be a small disclaimer notice at the foot of the main page, like you see on a lot of sites.

Basically TM is to protect the company, ie to stop people associating themselves, or passing off a similar product, or implying endorsement from LL. But only for a specific example. eg if you search the EU trademark database, you will find a lot of companies with the trademark Linden, eg Linden Foods, so if you sell food, you are breaking theirs, if you are selling a metaverse, then it will be Linden Labs’.

You can also use TMs as verbs, adverbs or adjectives without marks, so saying Lindened, is okay, as in the sense of attempting to fix something and making it worse. So you hoovered the carpet, or sellotaped it together are allowable uses.

It just requires a bit of common sense. Like copyright. If it is a news report, for research, or education, you can use parts, but you can’t copy it for personal use or for commerce. Thus, you can say Second Life is pretty crappy atm, because that is fair comment on a blog like this, and although disparaging, true at this point in time. If Linden Research Inc bothered to fix it, then it would no longer apply, but it seems they are more interested in protecting their IP, ignoring that of residents, and avoiding fixing what residents have been asking to be fixed for over a year, in favour of yet more shinies overloading the system.

To be honest, I’m not sure why they are bothering, since Second Life is becoming a joke everywhere - the metaverse that used to work™.

SL RIP. Oh, right, yesterday was the Day of Remembrance, not that it was working most of the day yet again…
122. 122 Salome Strangelove Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:44 PM

Laura, you need to take care when you make statements like this: “The TOS governs your relationship with Linden Lab and your use of the Second Life services. Your relationship with us includes how you use our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life.”

Our TOS relationship with Linden Lab starts and ends on your platform. You do not have the right or the ability to police the internet. If you are going to take action outside of the platform than that should be through RL channels, as Robin indicated in her office hours.

Moreover, how does Linden Lab presume to establish identity (virtual or otherwise) outside of their own domain? You can hold “Salome Strangelove” to task for what happens in-world because it is an account I hold with you on your platform. But anyone on the web can do whatever they like and go around calling themselves Salome Strangelove and I have no say in the matter. How exactly do you plan to determine if John Smith in SL is John Smith on some random website?

Just like this new trademark policy runs the risk of invalidating itself for over-reaching, so does the area of the TOS that addresses it. Most of us blog about SL because we’ve identified with it and remain, on some level, devoted to its longevity and development. But, if you want the business community of SL to take you seriously, and responsible residents to adhere to policies, then you need to get yourselves on the same page. Preferably one that clearly explains policies you can reasonably enforce.
123. 123 John B. Sandlin Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:45 PM

Folks, understand that the owners of a trademark _must_ protect that trademark or risk losing it. Just exactly how repressive is it that they ask that we users of their service do them the courtesy of honoring their legal rights (by using (R) or (TM) where required (don’t know how to easily enter the symbols in a blog comment)).

With the recent spate of Intellectual Property theft well publicized in world, we should be cogniscent of the need for them to protect theirs.

JBS
124. 124 Alvi Halderman Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:47 PM

Lol pretty strange the getafirst life website…………
i hope i wont need to say Linden Lab™®© or Second Life™®©
could be boring finding out how to make that simbols!

ol
125. 125 More of The Same on Trademarks | VintFalken.com Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:50 PM

[...] Although it may clarify some things, I will reference to this official Linden blogpost as More of The Same on Trademarks. I suggest we still march on Sunday and my 10000L$ bounty for best Linden Trademark Parody still [...]
126. 126 John B. Sandlin Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 4:52 PM

Oh - and a point I forgot a moment ago, I’m imagine the people working on the legal issues, logo licensing, and trademark issues are a different set from those working to fix issues in the service. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want trademark experts touching the code! I doubt we want the programmers doing the legal research. If the Linden’s are like most other corporations, they have people that specialize and concentrate in their areas. If they don’t - that might explain a lot (kidding).

JBS
127. 127 Good Grief Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:07 PM

well,,, let me tell you… it is interesting to read all of these comments… but you are all arranging deck chairs on the Titanic… none of this will ever matter to anyone if SL is not a highly reliable product… no person no company will ever care about what happens here… SL will become an HBS case study for how insular techie nerds are always doomed to fail… protection of the SL brand is a waste of time… on this particular blog you are all engaging in the lawyers gambit… let’s rack up some billable hours while we still can… sorry but unless senior management wakes up (not likely given the trajectory) this whole exercise will just become a case study in how now to do it. Sorry SL’ers but you are wasting your time.
128. 128 nika talaj Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:07 PM

If folks want to continue discussion after comments close, see forum thread: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=254075

@lauraplinden: There still seems to be confusion, I see some residents throwing up their hands in despair here. The problem with sending questions to your trademark team is that the answers are not shared publicly, so no learning takes place.

May I suggest that a Linden start a “Trademark Q&A” thread in the RA section of the forums, and answer some specific questions about resident’s websites/businesses for a few days? If the community sees LL’s reasoning in action in specific real world cases, I think it might help. Questions that are too complex to be answered in that venue could simply be referred to tm-questions as above.

The forums are a fairly safe place for this, being unsearchable by Google etc., and postable only by payment-info-on-file residents.
129. 129 Tasman Perth Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:16 PM

Whats going on here, I believe, is the normal Linden Lab employees, who have normal human common sense, are starting to pay too much attention to the “village idiots”, better known as lawyers, who infest too many otherwise good companies. I suspect its gonna get worse before it gets better….
130. 130 Kit Meredith Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:21 PM

@88 - LauraP, thanks for responding to my question. I think your efforts to engage the community in this way - assuming it continues into the future - will do a lot to heal the discord caused by the branding policy announcement. :)

No, the discussion with Robin wasn’t over third parties infringing Resident content on external sites. The discussion last week was directly on the branding policy and the fact that compliance with the guidelines had been explicitly written into the ToS as Section 4.4. I know that Robin doesn’t like us quoting her from office hours, so I won’t post the chat log, but to paraphrase she told us that Linden Lab had no intention of banning anyone for infringing its trademarks - according to her, any infringement would be dealt with through RL channels (presumably the courts). That sounds completely different than what you’re saying now.

If that policy has changed, so be it, but we need that to be said to us explicitly, and the Lindens need to speak with a consistent voice on this. I would like to find a time that the two of us, Gwyn if she’ll join us, and Robin can sit down so that we can make sure everyone is on the same page.

I don’t have a problem with Linden Lab protecting its trademarks within the bounds of the law. I also don’t have a problem with policy changes so long as there isn’t detrimental reliance by residents on the old policy. But because there is legal liability potentially riding on this, Linden Lab needs to be as explicit as possible in communicating things. Getting different messages from different Lindens isn’t helping that.

Thanks again.
131. 131 Your Nosey Neighbor Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:26 PM

It’s sickening how those who regularly bash LL on 3rd party forums and blogs are actually expecting to be “grandfathered” in or may be waiting on some exception letter to “get out of jail free”.

What part of “strategic for business” don’t people understand?

If you are not a part of the solution, then you are a part of the problem and I wouldn’t expect LL to grant any type of exception for sites that have users that regularly bash LL or make SL look unprofessional.

Have fun thinking up new domain names!
132. 132 IAm Zabelin Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Unfortunately this is even a bigger slap in our faces - in that LL have done nothing about the IP theft in-world, since they made written promises YEARS ago, when business owners shut up shops and walked out.

Yet as soon as a perceived need arises to think about protecting their trademark, they throw everything at it, and still do nothing to look after their users rights and investments … who after all created and paid for it all.

_________________________________

LAURAP LINDEN … please stand up and let us know when IP theft office hours are ?
And also who is in charge of resolving the out-of-control IP theft issues?

Also, why is LL is sitting back allowing thief’s to copy our content? instead of piling pressure on, and implementing anti-theft strategies.

Why is it of such little importance that it doesn’t even warrant actions?
133. 133 Alicia Roeth Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Incredible. Never have i seen such a lengthy explanatory post. Perhaps a Linden (can I actually type Linden…ooops did it again) could take the time to answer some of the issues that cause real concern. Issues which have been around for the 18mths I have been part of this “game”. This is an incredible and blatant instance (and by far the first) od Linden Lab publicly stating they are concerened with themselves first and foremost and NOT their paying customers.

Disgusted so much time has been spent on this.
134. 134 sweet primrose Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 5:57 PM

Has Linden Labs trademarked “Transaction Failure”? :D
135. 135 Renee Faulds Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:00 PM

No but they are seriously working on trademarking “We ran everybody out of business”.

PHIL - Where is your 2/3rd’s of my $54,000 monthly tier ??

BORKED BORKED BORKED

If you had any poseballs Phil you’d pay up - seeing how this is now being blogged about else where that you have no poseballs..

Renee Faulds
136. 136 Nominative Fair Use « Sean Heying’s Blog Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:03 PM

[...] Second Life® in your blog now requires you be aware of the new rules in regards to trademarks. Today’s SL blog topic from the Lab lists slightly more clarification on nominative fair use, that is our ability to use the words [...]
137. 137 Jazzman Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:10 PM

#’s 19 and 28

I prefer to think of it not as a game, more like a platform, but really like a cedar deck with dryrot.
I’m truly surprised there are Lindens not working on stability 8-|
138. 138 Alexander Regent Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:15 PM

hmmmm….I wonder if “Suckond Life” is trademarked? (patent pending, patent pending, patent pending)

It works on soooo many different levels….don’t cha think? :-P
139. 139 Nyte Caligari Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:35 PM

This has probably been said over and over here… however….

Did you guys really just post that? Transactions have been failing daily, multiple time daily, hourly, etc. And… we’re discussing trademarks? I do understand the need and importance for trademarks, but really, don’t you think your priorities are a bit off here?
140. 140 Kandy Tomorrow Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:36 PM

Frankly, if I were Linden Lab™©®, I wouldn’t want to be associated with the name Second Life™©® after how horrendous it’s been the past week. Solution to the bloggers and press though, easiest way to avoid all these new rules is to just not mention Second Life™©® altogether….

[Second Life™©® is a registered trademark of Linden Lab™©® and any use of the Second Life™©® and Linden Lab™©® trademarks used here is not to be construed as representing the views of Linden Lab™©®]
141. 141 Kula Anatine Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:47 PM

why cant we post or use the trademark in a non service or product way like blogs or fansites dedicated to Second life ® ™ noun. and of course people would know if something was LL or not yet again LLs concept of most people made clear. Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun People dont forget when you chat inwould dont get caught with out using a noun of trademark after saying of referring to Second life ® ™ noun
142. 142 ronin devinna Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:50 PM

My business partners(we have 4 islands and others business) was banned because some Alter, report that she have no age to be in sl…she have 35 years old!!!!!!!!…LindenLab dont accept portuguese BI, only passport…she have no passport… how about to fix that things ?

Thanks a lot.
143. 143 ronin devinna Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 6:51 PM

her name is Violeta Yakan.
144. 144 U M Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 7:02 PM

Questen is what about older items that breaks Copyright rules? If we have them in our inventory?
145. 145 U M Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 7:15 PM

I read and reread “9. How is it that Linden Lab can update its trademark policy? And why can’t Residents be “grandfathered” in under the earlier policies?”

This is so fuzzy and doesnt point out what is breaking rules and whats not. PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH or atleast write it in different languges so people can understand this correctly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
146. 146 sirhc DeSantis Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 7:22 PM

OK that seems clearer. Well in terms of what we are talking anyway (you know who I mean lol)
147. 147 Winter Ventura Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 7:27 PM

I will no longer refer to “Second Life” in my blog posts. That will simply solve all issues. If we all do this, then “the videogame maintained by the company in San Francisco” will begin to lose search relevance.

Personally, I like that we can comply with their trademark rules, by simply adding 2 words.

I can think of two words right now.
148. 148 Tiny Mind Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 7:46 PM

With all these Grid-performance ‘issues’ of late, I think the NEW name will soon one day be: “The Game formerly-known as Second Life.”

Tiny it up!
149. 149 uh-oh Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 8:11 PM

“So, why exactly does even a prim genital in a mature classified ad have to be hidden from the public eye? Perhaps because the adult grid has been turned into a place where everyone (and all ages) can sign up pretty much anonymously and without an age check? Well, iIt’s either Disneyland online or the SL adult grid, you can’t host both on the same servers. Unless you hurry up with the long planned, long overdue and almost forgotten age verification. Any news on that?”
The new TOS update said that they know underage kids are out here and you have to agree to that before you logged in. Now if you get caught cybering with a underage kid you cannot claim it is an adult site in court. Or if you beat up some kid in RP then it’s some kind of assault on a minor? kind of messed up if you ask me.
They are even raising the build limit to 4000 meters. yet the the IDV ban lines only go up 50m. To top it off they claim they are only a service and not responsible for residents material. the only way to stay out of legal trouble is to act like the whole grid is PG.
At least if LL had age verification at login you can prove the kid lied and stole another persons ID to log in.
I think the IDV is nothing but a PR stunt to cover their own hind ends.
I think this new TOS update really made a mess of things.
150. 150 Carl Metropolitan Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 8:19 PM

Your IP lawyers are giving you poorly thought out advice regarding incorporation of your new trademark policy into the Terms of Service. Especially in regards to recommendations that you attempt to apply the policy to user’s activities outside of Second Life.

What you are being advised to do is of questionable legality (as the SL ToS could easily–again–be found to be a “contract of adhesion), but more importantly is a potential public relations fiasco.

I urge you to reconsider. Or at least talk to some non-IP lawyers.
151. 151 Renee Faulds Says:
April 18th, 2008 at 8:26 PM

3 weeks of BORKED BORKED BORKED Phil.

You promise to bring stability is also BORKED.

I waiting for you to cough up your 2/3rd’s of my monthly land tiers Phil !

152. Cat Cotton says:

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is an organization dedicated to protecting freedom of speech on the Internet. The Open Net Initiative (ONI) is a collaboration between the Citizen Lab at the Munk Centre for International Studies, University of Toronto, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School, the Advanced Network Research Group at the Cambridge Security Programme, University of Cambridge, and the Oxford Internet Institute, at Oxford University which aims to investigate, expose, and analyze Internet filtering and surveillance practices in a credible and non-partisan fashion.